# Is Lena Dunham's complaint of not getting black male sexual attention racist & sexist stereotyping? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064 "2016-09-04T22:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/21 "2016-09-05T01:54:08Z")
Well, in her apology she does acknowledge that her initial over the top butthurt reaction could be viewed as racially tinged in the greater context – she is very aware that \* regardless of the intent of the writer, the impression upon the audience needs to be addressed\*. And the reality is that a number of people \*did \*see a racial component, I could well imagine bringing that up may have added some extra shock to help her snap out of it quicker. Applies to any of us, from A-Listers to anonymous cubicle dwellers: Letters, e-mails, blog posts, if you wrote it angry/hurt, don’t send it right away. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/22 "2016-09-05T02:18:34Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well, in her apology she does acknowledge that her initial over the top butthurt reaction could be viewed as racially tinged in the greater context – she is very aware that \* regardless of the intent of the writer, the impression upon the audience needs to be addressed\*. And the reality is that a number of people \*did \*see a racial component, I could well imagine bringing that up may have added some extra shock to help her snap out of it quicker. I totally accept the point that if your words or actions are having an undesirable \*effect \*on others (be it racism or anything else), then apology and modulation may be appropriate even if there were no deliberate _intent_ on your part. However, there surely has to be a _reasonableness_ standard - in this case, is it be _reasonable_ for a black person to construe this as demeaning on racial grounds? Maybe so, it’s a moot point - but it’s not sufficient that a few angry tweeters claim they were offended. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/23 "2016-09-05T02:27:43Z")
Oh good grief. Shock, horror, a woman suspected an athlete, and a football player at that, of ignoring her because she’s not a fuckable trophy, which seems to be how many athletes see women. And people think she only said this because he’s _black_?! She’s apologizing for the perceived racism because that’s what she’s been accused of. I see no racist connotation in her words (as reported). I’m usually pretty quick to spot racism–and it’s everywhere so it’s not that hard to do–but unless something’s being left out of her comments, I’m calling this scandal hypersensitive bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/24 "2016-09-05T02:41:36Z")
Definitely got the white female fat privileged Amy Schumer victim thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/25 "2016-09-05T02:55:20Z")
In my opinion: If he had ogled her, she would have complained about sexual harassment. Since he did not ogle her, she complained about being ignored. I believe she was looking for things to complain about. I believe she would have done the same, regardless of the race of the male involved. I believe many of her readers were looking for things to complain about. Since he was a different race than she, they assumed the worst. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/26 "2016-09-05T02:58:15Z")
That’s true. You know us black people, always looking for monsters to be afraid of. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the very, very, very long history of bad things happening to black men who have the misfortune of being in the sights of a white woman, like in TKAM. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/27 "2016-09-05T04:24:32Z")
Has Beckham bothered to address this yet? I would respect the hell out of him if he just decided to sit out this foolishness altogether and let it wither without a response. It’s not like he’s not kinda REALLY BUSY at the moment, after all. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/28 "2016-09-05T04:32:43Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > That’s true. You know us black people, always looking for monsters to be afraid of. > > I’m sure it has nothing to do with the very, very, very long history of bad things happening to black men who have the misfortune of being in the sights of a white woman, like in TKAM. Well said and frankly that is an aspect of white female privilege that white women are often loathe to be sensitive to, or even acknowledge. Putting a black man in a hyper sexualized context relative to yourself where he\* should\* be paying attention to your average to chubby white girl tuxedoed self, but for some mysterious reason beyond comprehension is not, is ascribed as fat shaming, self centered rudeness on his part. Painting a black man and all the cultural baggage he has to carry into a corner like this with all your white female expectations of being due his male gaze is a level of entitlement that beggars the imagination. And many white women, some even in this thread, are utterly blind to the humiliating box their expectations might put him in. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/29 "2016-09-05T04:34:59Z")
Well, to be fair, she’s pretty quick to roll with guilty until proven innocent in her accusations, she’s entitled to the same. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/30 "2016-09-05T04:55:26Z")
We’re talking about a woman who bragged about molesting her sister as a child, and who claims that white people eating sushi is cultural appropriation here. Why should anyone take anything she says seriously? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/31 "2016-09-05T05:07:09Z")
The biggest -ism in her post was narcissism. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/32 "2016-09-05T05:19:43Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Has Beckham bothered to address this yet? I would respect the hell out of him if he just decided to sit out this foolishness altogether and let it wither without a response. It’s not like he’s not kinda REALLY BUSY at the moment, after all. I would love it if he just gave a one-word answer: “Who?” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/33 "2016-09-05T05:56:18Z")
Here’s my thinking. I basically put together the facts. [ul] [li]Lena Dunham is a well known social justice activist. [/li][li]Lena Dunham is an edgy comedian.[/li][li]Edgy comedians often make jokes that cross a line.[/li][li]Lena Dunham has no reputation for racist remarks. [/li][li]She apologized properly.[/li][li]She is not known for using apologies as an excuse to hurt people.[/li][/ul] Given all this, I say “not racist.” And given all but the last two, and I say assuming racism was the wrong tact. Better would be to assume she’s not trying to say anything racist and just tell her it could come off that way. Of course, that’s not what gets the views and the money. Oh, and she didn’t do what **Guinastasia** claims. Those are also sensationalist headlines. What she did was make a joke in her book about a time as a kid where she was curious about her sister’s vagina (and discovered that she’d been putting pebbles up there). And she supported a group at an Ohio school that said that they were making sushi improperly with bad ingredients. As a general rule, if you hear bad stuff about a supposed “SJW,” take it with a grain of salt. Go read what really happened before you believe the stories. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/34 "2016-09-05T07:15:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I basically put together the facts. > […]Lena Dunham is a well known social justice activist. That is not a fact. That is, in fact, the opposite of a fact. Lena Dunham comes under fire all the time for how clueless she is about real social justice issues, and also for how damn white her show’s version of Brooklyn is. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/35 "2016-09-05T09:07:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Oh, and she didn’t do what **Guinastasia** claims. …What she did was make a joke in her book about a time as a kid where she was curious about her sister’s vagina (and discovered that she’d been putting pebbles up there). And she supported a group at an Ohio school that said that they were making sushi improperly with bad ingredients. . I haven;t read the book, but I have checked this out, and that doesn’t seem to be correct. [One section of the book in particular focuses on her relationship with her younger sister Grace when they were children. A relationship that she wrote included Dunham’s offering the then-toddler sister “three pieces of candy if I could kiss her on the lips for five seconds … basically anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl” and how she would “carefully spread open her” sister’s legs out of curiosity.](http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/lena-dunham-apologizes-sexual-predator-section-book/story?id=26685074) [According to Dunham, her sister was the one crawling into her bed, and Grace was asleep when the masturbation happened—so Dunham, who was at least 13 at the time, was essentially masturbating in private.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/11/04/lena_dunham_sibling_sexual_abuse_allegations_ridiculous_and_dangerous.html) Bear in mind, her sister is 6 years younger than her. I have to wonder if you’d be quite so sanguine if a 13 (likely 17)yo boy was bribing his 6-10yo sister to kiss him and \*regularly \*masturbating while his sister was in his bed? Was it sexual molestation? Well, if a boy did it to a girl, almost certainly. It’s certainly close enough that someone can make the claim in a press article and face no legal repercussion. IOW Dunham and her manager presumably think there’s a fair chance they’d lose a libel suit. It is certainly as creepy as hell to have a 13yo kissing bribing their 6yo sister to kiss her and masturbating when she climbs into their bed. It wasn’t one act, as you suggest, it went on for at least 6 years. Calling it molestation isn’t wrong, it’s a perfectly valid interpretation for some seriously creepy behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/36 "2016-09-05T11:34:20Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > The biggest -ism in her post was narcissism. Which seems to be a common thread in her work. > [@MrDibble](#): > > That is not a fact. That is, in fact, the opposite of a fact. > > Lena Dunham comes under fire all the time for how clueless she is about real social justice issues, and also for how damn white her show’s version of Brooklyn is. Also opposite of true is BigT calling her a comedian, edgy or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/37 "2016-09-05T12:39:16Z")
I have no idea whether it was racist, but it was certainly idiotic and self-absorbed, and probably sexist. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/38 "2016-09-05T13:27:21Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I totally accept the point that if your words or actions are having an undesirable \*effect \*on others (be it racism or anything else), then apology and modulation may be appropriate even if there were no deliberate _intent_ on your part. However, there surely has to be a _reasonableness_ standard - in this case, is it be _reasonable_ for a black person to construe this as demeaning on racial grounds? Maybe so, it’s a moot point - but it’s not sufficient that a few angry tweeters claim they were offended. > [@choie](#): > > Oh good grief. Shock, horror, a woman suspected an athlete, and a football player at that, of ignoring her because she’s not a fuckable trophy, which seems to be how many athletes see women. And people think she only said this because he’s _black_?! > > She’s apologizing for the perceived racism because that’s what she’s been accused of. I see no racist connotation in her words (as reported). I’m usually pretty quick to spot racism–and it’s everywhere so it’s not that hard to do–but unless something’s being left out of her comments, I’m calling this scandal hypersensitive bullshit. In her actual initial words, what stereotype seems to be grabbed upon in a phrase like: > [@](#): > > “This should be called the Metropolitan Museum of Getting Rejected by Athletes.” is indeed that of _athletes_ as meatheads. (Which does bring up: would it have been it OK to just stereotype “male athletes = horny meatheads”? More on this later.) However, given the current American sociocultural vibe, people _are_ understandably touchy about a black man being the target of the meathead athlete stereotype\* even if the statement had no racist content\*, due to a large load of baggage around the stereotype. Some day may come when it’s not, but in late summer 2016 it is still not utterly unreasonable to see hackles raised, unfortunately. Which brings me back to something I mentioned earlier – I can’t help but wonder: if people had not felt it pressed their “racism” buttons and told her so, if people had just complained about the unfairness of the “athlete” stereotype, would that have been made a big deal of, would she have felt as motivated to step back and reconsider her statement? And FWIW, both there and in other statements, Lena does seem to be down on the Met Gala as a festival of shallowness. So was she there looking for material to snark on? Sister, sometimes a party of rich privileged people is just a party of rich privileged people… and yes, Lena, _ **you are now one of them** _. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/39 "2016-09-05T13:40:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > her personal insecurities about her physical appearance lead her into silly self-absorbed over-thinking That’s her pretty much her whole career. I suppose she’d be even worse off if she realized that she shouldn’t feel like a “sack of flaming garbage” because of her appearance. She should feel like a sack of flaming garbage because of her personality. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064/40 "2016-09-05T14:49:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And FWIW, both there and in other statements, Lena does seem to be down on the Met Gala as a festival of shallowness. So was she there looking for material to snark on? Sister, sometimes a party of rich privileged people is just a party of rich privileged people… and yes, Lena, _ **you are now one of them** _. She was born one of them. She grew up in a $6 million apartment in Tribeca to artist parents and now lives in a modest $5 million condo in Hipster Heaven. She is scion of a rich well connected family who likes to portray herself as the every woman. For every interview I see of her that makes her look like a nice funny interesting person there is always at least one that makes her seem completely insufferable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lena-dunhams-complaint-of-not-getting-black-male-sexual-attention-racist-sexist-stereotyping/765064.md?page=3)