# Is Leviticus 19:34 a valid passage to cite WRT the refugees? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909 "2015-11-18T19:42:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/1 "2015-11-18T19:42:10Z")
I’m an Atheist myself, so I would never use it, but it does seem like a good passage to cite towards Christians who have taken a stand against the refugees. I also find it rather ironic that anti gay Christians are quick to recite Leviticus 18:22 when it comes to gay marriage and the like. > [@](#): > > \*\*Leviticus 19:34:\*\*The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/2 "2015-11-18T19:53:59Z")
The first retort would be that they aren’t in our land, and they aren’t residing with me. They’re overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/3 "2015-11-18T19:54:34Z")
Understanding Leviticus in context requires understanding that some of these were instructions given to the Levites - the priestly class. Some argue that such limitations imposed in Leviticus were not meant to be applied to all people, just the Levites. And then the there is the whole Old Testament/New Testament thing. Perhaps a better scripture would be **Matthew 7:12** stating the well known Golden Rule. Heck, all of Matthew Chapter 7 would be a good start covering the not judge lest ye be judged, not taking the speck out of your brother’s eye whilst ignoring the plank in your own, watching out for false prophets, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/4 "2015-11-18T19:58:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The first retort would be that they aren’t in our land, and they aren’t residing with me. They’re overseas. So you really feel the intent of that biblical injunction was that a country should seal its borders so it can keep out the people it would be obligated to treat humanely if they got inside? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/5 "2015-11-18T20:03:18Z")
[Hebrews 13:2](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13:2&version=NIV) is probably better. Or [Matthew 25:34-35](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&version=RSV). I’d steer clear of [2 Samuel 10:17]([2 - - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2) Samuel+10:17&version=RSV), though. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/6 "2015-11-18T20:04:35Z")
We _Christians_ have been citing verses like that at the anti-refugee crowd for years, but if you want to get in on the act, hey, go for your life, you got my blessing for what it’s worth. However, using something you avowedly don’t believe in might be seen as a bit - cynical, perhaps? For a pro-humanity statement both you AND whoever you’re talking to ought, theoretically, to be able to get behind, may I suggest a spot of Thomas Jefferson? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that **all men are created equal** , that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/7 "2015-11-18T20:07:39Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The first retort would be that they aren’t in our land, and they aren’t residing with me. They’re overseas. Yeah, that seems like a more appropriate verse to apply to our treatment of people who are already here, not those who want to come in. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/8 "2015-11-18T20:12:30Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that **all men are created equal** , that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.” Great idea - we’ll definitely save money by not letting any women in! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/9 "2015-11-18T20:43:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you really feel the intent of that biblical injunction was that a country should seal its borders so it can keep out the people it would be obligated to treat humanely if they got inside? No. But it’s human nature when presented with text to see if it literally applies or not. That’s what many of the people that the OP is targeting with his message (Christians that oppose giving refugee status in the US to Syrians). ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/10 "2015-11-18T20:56:36Z")
The Leviticus passage would not be the best in this situation. As Omar Little points out, it doesn’t say you have to take them in, just that you shouldn’t mistreat the ones who are here. If I were going to cite a verse to support taking in the refugees, it would be [Matthew 25](http://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/25.htm):34-46. The punch line, so to speak, is > [@](#): > > 44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ > > 45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/11 "2015-11-19T02:38:28Z")
:eek: The passage linked by **dracoi** just above has an eye-opening (for me anyway) footnote: It says that a one _talent_ was equal to _twenty years_ wages of a typical day laborer. > [@](#): > > Footnotes: > 15 Greek five talents . . . two talents . . . one talent; also throughout this parable; a talent was worth about 20 years of a day laborer’s wage. Can that be right? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/12 "2015-11-19T04:10:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yeah, that seems like a more appropriate verse to apply to our treatment of people who are already here, not those who want to come in. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > No. But it’s human nature when presented with text to see if it literally applies or not. That’s what many of the people that the OP is targeting with his message (Christians that oppose giving refugee status in the US to Syrians). > [@dracoi](#): > > The Leviticus passage would not be the best in this situation. As Omar Little points out, it doesn’t say you have to take them in, just that you shouldn’t mistreat the ones who are here. I’m imaging the conversation you guys would have with God. God: “Treat every guest in your home with the same love and kindness you give to the members of your family.” You: “I understand. You’re saying we should keep the doors of our house locked so nobody can get inside. That way we won’t have to treat anybody with love and kindness.” God: “I think you missed the bigger message I was aiming for here.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/13 "2015-11-19T04:22:31Z")
There’s no reason why we can’t help the refugees by putting them up in a nice hotel. In Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/14 "2015-11-19T04:28:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you really feel the intent of that biblical injunction was that a country should seal its borders so it can keep out the people it would be obligated to treat humanely if they got inside? Not at all… Leviticus 25:44 states: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/15 "2015-11-23T13:45:26Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > :eek: The passage linked by **dracoi** just above has an eye-opening (for me anyway) footnote: It says that a one _talent_ was equal to _twenty years_ wages of a typical day laborer. > > Can that be right? CUrrency wasn’t as standardized in Biblical times as they are today, but there were about [6,000 denarii in a talent](https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/mass/53-58/talent_(Biblical_Greek)-denarius_(Biblical_Roman)/)and the denarius was one day’s wages for an unskilled worker (cf. the [parable of the workers in the vineyard](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiwmvCV1qbJAhWF4iYKHfn1BFcQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biblegateway.com%2Fpassage%2F%3Fsearch%3DMatthew%2B20&usg=AFQjCNH2fX-7DCfArC4otG5BWURjMw8Y7w&sig2=Sdg49skNdRAvODirPZKJaw&bvm=bv.108194040,d.eWE)). So, assuming someone didn’t work on the Sabbath and holidays, that’s somewhere about 250 days a year. 6,000 / 250 = 24. In purchasing power, federal minimum wage of $7.25 \* 40 hours a week for 52 weeks \* 24 years = $362,000. The closest translation is something like “it was a lot of money”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/16 "2015-11-23T15:27:36Z")
In general, I think that citing passages from a religion I don’t share is not likely to be persuasive to the adherents of that religion, no matter how apt they might appear. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/17 "2015-11-23T15:29:10Z")
I prefer Deuteronomy 27:19 in situations like this: “Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.” ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/18 "2015-11-23T18:26:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m imaging the conversation you guys would have with God. > > God: “Treat every guest in your home with the same love and kindness you give to the members of your family.” > You: “I understand. You’re saying we should keep the doors of our house locked so nobody can get inside. That way we won’t have to treat anybody with love and kindness.” > God: “I think you missed the bigger message I was aiming for here.” Hey, I’m not saying that’s my overall opinion of the Bible, just that I don’t think that particular verse is creating the bigger obligation. It’s part of why quoting any single verse is a bad way to argue. You first have to look at the passage it’s in to understand the immediate context. Then you have to make sure any conclusions you’re drawing are not contradicted somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/19 "2015-11-24T03:15:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > :eek: The passage linked by **dracoi** just above has an eye-opening (for me anyway) footnote: It says that a one _talent_ was equal to _twenty years_ wages of a typical day laborer. > > Can that be right? That changes the tenor of the story a lot. If someone buried…um, let’s say several hundred grand…in his backyard, that might be seen as socially irresponsible and a bit paranoid. I always just felt sorry for the guy, but I’m rethinking it a little. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-leviticus-19-34-a-valid-passage-to-cite-wrt-the-refugees/737909/20 "2015-11-24T03:22:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m imaging the conversation you guys would have with God. > > God: “Treat every guest in your home with the same love and kindness you give to the members of your family.” > You: “I understand. You’re saying we should keep the doors of our house locked so nobody can get inside. That way we won’t have to treat anybody with love and kindness.” > God: “I think you missed the bigger message I was aiming for here.” Wait, the Castle Doctrine says I can shoot people dead in my home. And that’s a Doctrine! That means church stuff, right? 😛 > [@Magiver](#): > > There’s no reason why we can’t help the refugees by putting them up in a nice hotel. In Saudi Arabia. On the other hand, they would be in _Saudi Arabia._ Who would go _there_ if not for the Hajj or the oil industry? 😛