# Is liberalism dying worldwide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2010, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221 "2010-12-15T10:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/21 "2010-12-15T14:32:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Glad to see Patriotic Americans are staging massive electoral revolts in America these days, rather than Iran or Nicaragua. > > Is “thing **Mr Smashy** said” a new definition of “expression”? I think he’s referring to the Roman handouts of food, about the only historical example of socialism I can think of. It definitely led very directly to the collapse of the Roman civilization. After all, after they begun the massive handouts, they only managed to last for 3 or 400 more years. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/22 "2010-12-15T14:39:26Z")
There’s an old saying on this, why liberals seem divided while conservatives seem united. _There’s many ways of moving forward, but only one way of standing still_ And I believe this is somewhat true. Some liberal ideas didn’t work, so you go back and try something different. That doesn’t mean you abandoned the overall goal, just the means of getting it ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/23 "2010-12-15T14:44:23Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Then again, your username makes your political outlook pretty clear. :)) Yes. Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that. Do we have a “JGalt57”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/24 "2010-12-15T14:48:24Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > There’s an old saying on this, why liberals seem divided while conservatives seem united. > > _There’s many ways of moving forward, but only one way of standing still_ > > And I believe this is somewhat true. Some liberal ideas didn’t work, so you go back and try something different. That doesn’t mean you abandoned the overall goal, just the means of getting it I think it has more to do with conservatives being tyrants or wannabee tyrants, while liberals believe much more in freedom. Left wing tyrants, like conservatives, are also known for their concern over ideological purity. Liberals are the _moderates_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/25 "2010-12-15T15:03:23Z")
> [@HRoark43](#): > > Patriotic Americans have staged a massive electoral revolt in America. :dubious: And those flaming assholes were any more “patriotic” than their opponents how? > [@HRoark43](#): > > Obama’s being forced to keep the Bush tax cuts that saved us from the disastrous downturn of 9/11 and brought us stellar job growth and prosperity over the last decade. You’re not even **trying** to maintain contact with reality, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/26 "2010-12-15T15:06:57Z")
Please dial it back a bit, **BrainGlutton**. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/27 "2010-12-15T15:17:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Please dial it back a bit, **BrainGlutton**. Sorry. But, as **Leaper** helpfully pointed out in post #2 . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/28 "2010-12-15T15:18:35Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Stellar job growth and prosperity? I would riposte with “Do you want fries with that?” but that was worn out during the **Clinton** years. The Bush “recovery” was even worse. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/29 "2010-12-15T15:25:08Z")
It’s funny to see this thread after seeing threads predicting the decline and possible extinction of conservatism and the decline and fall of the Republican Empire of Evil. The worm turns so fast these days… As to the OP…is ‘liberalism’ dying throughout the world? Hardly. As with conservatism, these things run in cycles. Something partisan proponents always seem to forget in their enthusiasm when the worm turns their way. Right now I think the mighty pendulum of US politics is still going left, even though the Republicans had a modest reversal in this years elections. Why? Because I don’t see that conservatives have actually put forth any meaningful answers, and are merely playing on people fears and frustrations. IOW, I think that the recession has distorted the actual trajectory of political movement in this country for a while, and if the recession lessens then we’ll see where we stand. As to Europe, I wouldn’t equate the cut back of a few of the myriad top heavy social programs in a few country with a vast recession of liberalism on that continent. Liberal ideals run VERY deep in Europe, and I seriously doubt that anything will ever put a serious dent into them…they are at the very grass roots of many European countries, pretty much taken in with their mothers milk, and they consider those things to be rights on par with your right to breathe air and drink water. And, frankly, it’s worked out for them well so far…why should they change? > [@](#): > > Cuba has admitted communism is a failure. While the entertainment value of this is not to be overlooked, especially with respect to certain 'dopers, I have to ask…so what? Cuba is by no means a ‘liberal’ country, and never has been, so it’s failure really reflects on the fact that communism is a failure and has nothing to do with liberalism. -XT ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/30 "2010-12-15T15:25:38Z")
C’mon, guys. It’s not like the OP is ever going to come back and follow up on his nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/31 "2010-12-15T15:28:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sorry. But, as **Leaper** helpfully pointed out in post #2 . . . I agree the OP is provocative. It’s not so inflammatory that it rules out any sane conversation, so for now let’s proceed without the comments about flaming assholes and delusions. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/32 "2010-12-15T15:29:18Z")
> [@HRoark43](#): > > I never thought I’d see it in my lifetime. Europe is cutting back on its Government to make up for enormous budget shortfalls. Cuba has admitted communism is a failure. Patriotic Americans have staged a massive electoral revolt in America. Obama’s being forced to keep the Bush tax cuts that saved us from the disastrous downturn of 9/11 and brought us stellar job growth and prosperity over the last decade. Is this the end of leftism or am I celebrating too quickly? Nope. Most of latin america has leftist political leaders and most are doing good. Brazil is doing great, their middle class is booming > **[Pink tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_tide)** > > The pink tide (Spanish: marea rosa; Portuguese: onda rosa; French: marée rose), or the turn to the left (Spanish: giro a la izquierda; Portuguese: virada à esquerda; French: tournant à gauche), is a political wave and turn towards left-wing governments in Latin America throughout the 21st century. As a term, both phrases are used in political analysis in the news media and elsewhere to refer to a move toward more economically progressive or socially progressive policies in the region. Su The L... Chinese laborers are forcing new labor and environmental standards, plus pushing back on human rights abuses. I’m sure there are other examples, but latin america and China are having leftist upsurges (I consider a grassroots labor, human rights and environmental movement like in China a leftist movement). We liberals will still be here. Forever. Robbing the rich, imposing massive regulations that kill jobs, destroying cultural instutitions and trying to use government force to make societies mesh with our ivory tower social experiments. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/33 "2010-12-15T15:44:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > let’s proceed without the comments about flaming assholes and delusions. I think you are posting by mistake in the **very common dream** thread :eek: ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/34 "2010-12-15T15:53:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: And those flaming assholes were any more “patriotic” than their opponents how? By killing the 9/11 Responders Bill. Anyway, how long before this lovely thread ends up in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/35 "2010-12-15T16:00:51Z")
Political history has long been a tug of war between “conservatism” and “liberalism”. (I put them in quotes because what is liberal or conservative changes through time.) Neither side has lost. What happens is that we try new things and discard that which doesn’t work. Some liberal ideas (like certain aspects of socialism) are being pulled back because of the debt they create. Other liberal ideas, like acceptance of same-sex marriage and marijuana, are still moving forward. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/36 "2010-12-15T16:24:15Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I should, of course, note that the original poster’s user name is fairly clearly Howard Roark, the main character of Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead, combined with George W. Bush’s presidential number, #43. Oh. I’d assumed his name was a reference to Mr. Roark, the enigmatic host of TV’s Fantasy Island. You have to admit, my interpretation works just as well as yours to explain the OP. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/37 "2010-12-15T16:26:19Z")
Was the guy on Fantasy Island’s first name Howard? Or begin with an H? I was pretty sure it was a Rand reference when I saw the user name. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/38 "2010-12-15T16:27:13Z")
> [@HRoark43](#): > > Europe is cutting back on its Government to make up for enormous budget shortfalls. . . . Is this the end of leftism or am I celebrating too quickly? And the kindest thing to be said for that interpretation of events is that budget cutback != a political realignment. The political center-of-gravity in most European states remains about as far left of America’s as it was five or ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/39 "2010-12-15T16:29:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree the OP is provocative. It’s not so inflammatory that it rules out any sane conversation, so for now let’s proceed without the comments about flaming assholes and delusions. Nevertheless, and for the record, anyone involved however marginally in the Tea Party movement **is** a flaming asshole, and anyone who voted GOP this year should be presumed so until proven neither rectal nor incendiary. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221/40 "2010-12-15T16:35:23Z")
That was a joke, **xtisme**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-liberalism-dying-worldwide/564221.md?page=3)