# Is Libertarianism a Thing Outside the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157 "2014-06-05T23:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/1 "2014-06-05T23:19:43Z")
Outside of the US, are there any prominent (or somewhat-prominent) politicians/political parties that would meet the US definition of libertarian? A quick (although not thorough) definition of libertarian would be: socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Favors small government: open borders, liberal drug laws, liberal gun laws; opposes publicly-funded education, opposes (most if not all forms of) government-funded social welfare, opposes war and/or military interventionism. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/2 "2014-06-05T23:25:19Z")
Just today, Justin Bourque was describe by Canadian authorities as having Libertarian leanings. There is a manhunt in progress for him in Moncton, New Brunswick, where three RCMP officers were shot and killed last night. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/3 "2014-06-05T23:26:39Z")
Not in Canada. ETA: Sure, **jtur88** some individuals may think like this, but no prominent politician or political party holds all these tenets. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/4 "2014-06-05T23:35:01Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Outside of the US, are there any prominent (or somewhat-prominent) politicians/political parties that would meet the US definition of libertarian? > > A quick (although not thorough) definition of libertarian would be: socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Favors small government: open borders, liberal drug laws, liberal gun laws; opposes publicly-funded education, opposes (most if not all forms of) government-funded social welfare, opposes war and/or military interventionism. Is there a prominent politician in the US who holds allnthose views? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/5 "2014-06-05T23:40:10Z")
I can accept your thread with your definition, but it might be more realistic to not define a Libertarian as someone who is against wars or “military interventionism” which I am sure also itself needs defined. Libertarians support just wars. Most I know supported a limited war in Afghanistan as just, since that nation knowingly hosted a large well-funded well-organized enemy that did us major harm. But most did not in turn support Iraq. We believe that we should not be the world’s police force, at least not the way it currently works. We want to be a peaceful country that is capable of hitting back very hard only when we have first been punched. But under either definition, no I can’t think of any political groups outside of the U.S.A. by either yours or my definition. But I wouldn’t have been all that interested in looking, either. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/6 "2014-06-05T23:42:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is there a prominent politician in the US who holds allnthose views? Yes: Ron Paul, Rand Paul (to a degree), Andrew Napolitano (to a degree). And the Libertarian Party got 1% of the popular vote in the last general election. Yes, that’s not much, but it’s more than all other third parties combined. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/7 "2014-06-05T23:52:46Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Yes: Ron Paul, Rand Paul (to a degree). Neither of the Pauls favor open borders. Rand notably voted against the recent immigration bill because the borders were not secured first. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/8 "2014-06-05T23:53:45Z")
Chester William David Brown (born May 16, 1960) is a Canadian cartoonist and, since 2008, the **Libertarian Party of Canada** ’s candidate for the riding of Trinity—Spadina in Toronto, Canada. (From Wikipedia) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/9 "2014-06-05T23:59:20Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Chester William David Brown (born May 16, 1960) is a Canadian cartoonist and, since 2008, the **Libertarian Party of Canada** ’s candidate for the riding of Trinity—Spadina in Toronto, Canada. (From Wikipedia) I stand corrected. No wonder I’ve never heard of them, looking at their [election results.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_of_Canada#Election_results) 23 candidates in 2011. 6,017 votes. 0.04% of the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/10 "2014-06-06T01:04:18Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Yes: Ron Paul, Rand Paul (to a degree), Andrew Napolitano (to a degree). And the Libertarian Party got 1% of the popular vote in the last general election. Yes, that’s not much, but it’s more than all other third parties combined. They both oppose abortion and open borders. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/11 "2014-06-06T01:07:27Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Neither of the Pauls favor open borders. Rand notably voted against the recent immigration bill because the borders were not secured first. I don’t believe that either Libertarians (the Party) or individual libertarians believe in “open borders”. Most libertarians believe the central government has only three roles: a judicial system to settle disputes between parties, a police force to protect citizens from criminals and a military to defend against foreign attacks. If there was an “open border”, the military would have a tough time defending the country. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/12 "2014-06-06T01:11:26Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I don’t believe that either Libertarians (the Party) or individual libertarians believe in “open borders”. > > Most libertarians believe the central government has only three roles: a judicial system to settle disputes between parties, a police force to protect citizens from criminals and a military to defend against foreign attacks. If there was an “open border”, the military would have a tough time defending the country. The LP USA’s [official position](http://www.lp.org/platform): > [@](#): > > 3.4 Free Trade and Migration > > We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property. The final caveat leaves a great deal of wiggle-room. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/13 "2014-06-06T01:21:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They both oppose abortion and open borders. And they both oppose SSM. Not “socially liberal”, except in a few instances. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/14 "2014-06-06T01:23:34Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Not in Canada. > > ETA: Sure, **jtur88** some individuals may think like this, but no prominent politician or political party holds all these tenets. IANAC, but I’ve always thought the [Western Canada Concept](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Canada_Concept) had many elements of libertarianism (again, with the exception of the open borders thing). It’s been around a long time and seems to have a strong party organization in BC and AB at least. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/15 "2014-06-06T01:54:15Z")
Last time I checked a map, Canada was outside the U.S. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/16 "2014-06-06T02:06:33Z")
Not much Libertarian about Ted Cruz… ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/17 "2014-06-06T02:13:03Z")
Ron Paul has said that abortion and SSM should not be federal issues, and can be legalized democratically at the state level. I notice that the OP referred to the “US definition of Libertarian”, since, as I am fond of reminding people, the term began life meaning the same thing as anarchism, i.e. opposed to both the state and capitalism, and any forms of unjust, unexamined authority, power, and privilege. It’s the anti-authoritarian Left taken to its fullest conclusion. Now, in the US, Randroid types have hijacked the word, but some of us aren’t surrendering without a fight. ---
**Author:** ![C6541](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@C6541](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C6541)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/18 "2014-06-06T02:18:12Z")
Libertarianism as we know it in the states is a pretty unique phenomenon. For most of its history, including in the states, the label referred to anarchists in the leftist sense. Wouldn’t fiscally liberal (known as fiscally conservative in the states) and socially liberal be known more along the lines of classical liberalism globally? You’ll be hard pressed to find the unique American definition of libertarianism outside the States (and maybe small parties in Canada.) Comment: I notice the poster above more or less made the same observation as I was typing, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Fishtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@Fishtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fishtar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/19 "2014-06-06T02:39:19Z")
It is tempting to put Libertarians and Anarcho-capitalists is the same box. But in the U.S. many Libertarians are really just anti-Federalist or even Theocrats. They want the freedom to form local governments as they see fit, including those based on Biblical law. The freedom to take away freedom. Not all, but many… ---
**Author:** ![C6541](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@C6541](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C6541)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157/20 "2014-06-06T02:43:41Z")
To be honest, while the Libertarian Party has a clear platform and stance I find many libertarians not only lacking a coherent ideology but many are young contrarians that seem to gravitate to the label because of the desire for liberal drug laws. I don’t want to generalize and I’m sure I am off the mark but in people I’ve met that’s what I’ve seen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-a-thing-outside-the-us/690157.md?page=2)