# Is Libertarianism the same as Anarchism? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498 "2012-07-07T04:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/41 "2012-07-11T18:04:09Z")
There’s a difference between statelessness and equality. Anarcho-syndicalists are egalitarian but not truly stateless. (Though some would argue that they mean to be stateless in some strange sense, I think at best you end up with a “state of all humans” or the like.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/42 "2012-07-12T07:06:50Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What about the means of production such as factories and so on? The land the factories sit on, and the resources that go into them? Not so much. But the actual equipment? _If_ the owner/s made all that/ got it made for them themselves by free association, freak freely. But if we’re talking about legacy equipment from a pre-anarchist situation, not so much, because I guarantee there would have been resources stolen from the common weal as inputs. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/43 "2012-07-12T09:58:07Z")
Philosophy counts for nothing on the ground. One hoodlum gangster with 50 thugs can destroy Libertarianism, changing it to Anarchy or Dictatorship at his whim. And didn’t Anarchy work so very well in Somalia? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/44 "2012-07-12T11:33:29Z")
:rolleyes: For fuck’s sake, how many times does it need to repeated: Anarchism =/= Anarchy ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/45 "2012-07-12T12:54:31Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Philosophy counts for nothing on the ground. > > One hoodlum gangster with 50 thugs can destroy Libertarianism, changing it to Anarchy or Dictatorship at his whim. For libertarianism to work, it would have to be as universal for everyone to carry guns as it now is for people to wear shoes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/46 "2012-07-12T13:03:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For libertarianism to work, it would have to be as universal for everyone to carry guns as it now is for people to wear shoes. You and i are walking along, carrying each a pistol. 50 thugs with AK47s come around the corner. The two of us had better just run- fast. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/47 "2012-07-12T13:30:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You and i are walking along, carrying each a pistol. 50 thugs with AK47s come around the corner. The two of us had better just run- fast. OK, so you and I either run or get shot; maybe we take a couple of them with us. Meanwhile the alarm goes out that a gang of thugs is trying to take over. Everyone gets _their_ AK-47s, a posse is formed and the gang suddenly finds that they are outlaws who will be shot on sight by their intended victims. This isn’t a hypothetical- read about what happened to the James/Younger gang or the Dalton gang. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/48 "2012-07-12T13:49:20Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For libertarianism to work, it would have to be as universal for everyone to carry guns as it now is for people to wear shoes. [Pretty much](http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=0) (that’s actually an OK graphic novel once you get past the hokey premise) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/49 "2012-07-12T14:27:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > For libertarianism to work, it would have to be as universal for everyone to carry guns as it now is for people to wear shoes. Or, they could opt for a police force. I hear that’s been tried once or twice and been proven to work pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/50 "2012-07-12T23:11:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > OK, so you and I either run or get shot; maybe we take a couple of them with us. Meanwhile the alarm goes out that a gang of thugs is trying to take over. Everyone gets _their_ AK-47s, a posse is formed and the gang suddenly finds that they are outlaws who will be shot on sight by their intended victims. This isn’t a hypothetical- read about what happened to the James/Younger gang or the Dalton gang. Read what happens in Somalia. Guns galore–gangs & warlords galore–nobody’s life is worth a plugged nickel. Phooey to this felgercarb. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/51 "2012-07-13T00:37:16Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Read what happens in Somalia. > > Guns galore–gangs & warlords galore–nobody’s life is worth a plugged nickel. > > Phooey to this felgercarb. What percentage of the population of Somalia posesses a firearm? I would bet it’s something like 2%, almost without exception recruits of the various governments, wanna-be governments and warlords/bandits, with the other 98% unarmed cowering refugees. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498/52 "2012-07-15T02:53:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes: For fuck’s sake, how many times does it need to repeated: Anarchism =/= Anarchy You can say it all you want, but it’s not true. You’ve decided to name yourself something that you aren’t, and then are trying to force everyone to change their opinion to what you think the word means. Libertarians do the same thing, BTW. The word means what everyone says it means–that’s how words work. You don’t get to redefine it so that you can claim to believe something and feel all haughty when people assume the word means what it actually means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-libertarianism-the-same-as-anarchism/627498.md?page=2)