# Is "locals only" legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413 "2005-09-26T01:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/21 "2005-09-26T17:53:06Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > If police were involved, was there not state action? Yes, hence my question in post 11. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/22 "2005-09-26T17:58:49Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > If police were involved, was there not state action? All it has to mean is that police are there to prevent trespassing. Trespassing means that unwanted people are trying to come onto private property. Those unwanted are non-locals. Just because someone has a very desirable commodity doesn’t mean they aren’t the same as any other private group or business. Wholesale clubs sell all kinds of great stuff including gasoline at reduced prices and you have to belong to select groups to get a membership. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/23 "2005-09-26T18:11:13Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > All it has to mean is that police are there to prevent trespassing. Trespassing means that unwanted people are trying to come onto private property. Those unwanted are non-locals. Just because someone has a very desirable commodity doesn’t mean they aren’t the same as any other private group or business. It’s not that simple. If on-duty police are actively enforcing the rule, even if the idea originated with the gas station owners, sufficient state action is arguably present, enough to trigger the Constitutional clause alluded to by **Paul**. (It should be noted that the rule isn’t absolute, though. Some state discrimination against out-of-staters has been upheld (e.g. higher fees for fishing licenses, or state park entry), usually on the theory that the in-staters are subsidising the service being paid for with taxes.) > [@Shagnasty](#): > > Wholesale clubs sell all kinds of great stuff including gasoline at reduced prices and you have to belong to select groups to get a membership. Irrelevant. Obviously no state action here. ---
**Author:** ![Foaming\_Cleanser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Foaming\_Cleanser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foaming_Cleanser)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/24 "2005-09-26T18:26:15Z")
> [@Foaming Cleanser](#): > > Those xenephobic Texans obviously don’t care; walling off a town can hardly be secretive. > [@micco](#): > > What’s the point in slamming all of Texas? Those people were also USian and Earthian, but you didn’t call them xenophobic Americans. Johnny L.A. pointed it out, but to include a cite: [[Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): adj. pl. those 1. Being the one singled out, implied, or understood: that place; those mountains. > [@](#): > > I apologize if I misinterpreted Foaming Cleanser. It just seemed that his comment displayed a (perhaps subconscious) opinion of all Texans and, the situation being what it is, I may have overreacted. Here’s hoping your prof at Subconscious Mind Reading University doesn’t have tenure. > [@](#): > > I’m not defending the people the OP describes, but they’re a small minority and I’m sure we could find similar jerks in your hometown. No you wouldn’t. If the cops tried that here — Canada — they’d be in jail, the story would be on every front page and the lead item on every news broadcast for a year, and heads would roll all the way up into Parliament. > [@](#): > > We can ridicule the bubbas all you want (and I frequently do) but when times are hard, they step up to help without reservation. Not in Nixon, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/25 "2005-09-26T18:37:33Z")
A lesson to everyone that refuses to learn economics: When the money price is kept from rising to equilibrium, another method must be discovered to ration the available supply. In this case there is a shortage imposed on out-of-towners. Pity also the gas station owner who would probably prefer not to sell to anyone at the below market price. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/26 "2005-09-26T19:42:37Z")
Here is a case considering a similar kind of policy. In Hawaii, it is common for hotels to offer a Kamaaina (“local”) rate to residents. The plaintiff class in this case argued that this form of discrimination was unconstitutional. The California Court of Appeals held that it was not. [http://online.ceb.com/calcases/CA3/73CA3d152.htm](http://online.ceb.com/calcases/CA3/73CA3d152.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/27 "2005-09-26T19:48:32Z")
Here are some examples of a Kamaaina rates. > **[Waikiki Resort & Beachfront Hotel - Waikiki Beachcomber by Outrigger](https://www.waikikibeachcomber.com)** > > B playful, B inspired, B original. Experience a new lifestyle hotel on the sands of Waikiki Beach, with luxury rooms and suites, a pool, and the Maui Brewing Co. [http://starbulletin.com/2004/06/14/business/story1.html](http://starbulletin.com/2004/06/14/business/story1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/28 "2005-09-26T19:55:37Z")
> [@Random](#): > > > [@Shagnasty](#): > > > > Wholesale clubs sell all kinds of great stuff including gasoline at reduced prices and you have to belong to select groups to get a membership. > > Irrelevant. Obviously no state action here. If somebody tried to force their way into one of those wholesale clubs and attempted to take the merchandise (even if they were willing to leave an amount of money equivalent to what a club member would pay), the police would presumably step in to defend the wholesaler’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/29 "2005-09-26T20:19:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I believe that it is legal also. People can refuse to sell what they have to anyone (as long as it isn’t systematic discrimination covered by laws). Towner vs Out of Towners isn’t a protected class. Maybe not, but the people being refused service are evacuees. If they are treated like pariah during a state mandated evacuation, then the state has an interest in preventing a ‘locals only’ policy. Otherwise, it will be harder to get people to evacuate when the next hurricane hits. Of course, it’s up to the state to make ‘locals only’ illegal in such situations. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/30 "2005-09-26T20:20:26Z")
> [@Walton Firm](#): > > If somebody tried to force their way into one of those wholesale clubs and attempted to take the merchandise (even if they were willing to leave an amount of money equivalent to what a club member would pay), the police would presumably step in to defend the wholesaler’s rights. Correct. If state officials enforce a private policy which is discriminatory, that is state action. [Griffin V. Maryland](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=378&invol=130) (police arrested black patrons of an amusement park for trespass based on racist admission policy; held, sufficient state action). In the case of private warehouse clubs, there is no invidious discrimination. Therefore, the state can enforce criminal trespass laws without violating the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/31 "2005-09-26T22:07:34Z")
> [@John F](#): > > Legal or not? A good way to establish this might be to contact the Texas Attorney General’s office and ask. See if you can get them to give you a state law reference. I suspect it may turn out to be legal, per prior posts in this thread, but it would be interesting to know for sure. Some businesses, such as common carriers, are required to serve anyone (barring drunks waving weapons or other identifiable exceptions). ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/32 "2005-09-26T22:26:59Z")
Their [website](http://www.nixontx.com/) says that they are hosting evacuee’s in the high school gym, so I don’t know if their ‘locals only’ policy applies to everything. You might try calling Don Chessher, Mayor, at City Hall: 830-582-1924. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/33 "2005-09-26T23:09:16Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Correct. If state officials enforce a private policy which is discriminatory, that is state action. [Griffin V. Maryland](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=378&invol=130) (police arrested black patrons of an amusement park for trespass based on racist admission policy; held, sufficient state action). > > In the case of private warehouse clubs, there is no invidious discrimination. Therefore, the state can enforce criminal trespass laws without violating the constitution. To expand on this a bit, no wholesale club rules that I’ve ever heard of discriminates on a basis that would be unconstitutional, even if state action were involved.\* AFAIK, Costco will give anyone a membership if he forks over the annual fee. Other, older-style warehouse outfits may only offer memberships to people in certain categories (for example, business owners, government workers, employees of certain businesses, or people in specified organizations), but discrimination like this isn’t unconstitutional. If a warehouse club discriminated on the basis of state residence, that arguably does raise a constitutional issue under Article IV (the privileges and immunities clause in section 2), if there is state action. I’m familiar with (and annoyed by) the widespread practice of Hawaiian businesses cited by **Gfactor** , and read the case he linked to with interest. However, in that case: > [@court opinion](#): > > There is no legitimate constitutional law issue here. Plaintiff attempts to bring into play the equal protection clause, commerce clause, and the privileges and immunities clause of the United States Constitution and the so-called constitutional “right to travel”. **These constitutional provisions and rights apply only to state action, or to acts by individuals abridging rights pursuant to specific state laws so that to a significant extent the state has become involved as a governmental entity. Here we have no allegation of a Hawaiian statute or any state activity under which the assertedly unlawful discrimination in hotel rates has taken place. It is not alleged that the State of Hawaii has in any way by express or implied statutory enactments caused, brought about, or taken any part in the rate discount policies or practices of the defendants.** (emphasis added. internal cites and footnotes omitted.) And it’s difficult to imagine a situation where a hotel, for example, would need to call in the state to enforce its Kamaaina discount policy. Though it’d be interesting to see a privileges and immunities argument made an out-of-state defendant in a Hawaiian court collection lawsuit brought by a hotel alleging nonpayment (where the defendant offered to pay the in-state rate). The use of the state courts would arguably be the necessary state action. It’d be a long shot, though, especially given the Hawaiian home field advantage and the ingrained acceptance in that state of Kamaaina discounting. \*I concede that if an actual unit of government directly discriminated in favor of say, members of the ACME credit union, like some warehouse clubs have been known to do, it arguably would present an equal protection problem. But credit union membership, like the other criteria sometimes used by warehouse clubs, does not involve a suspect class (race, religion, etc.) and would not get strict court scrutiny. And no **indirect** state action related to private favoritism of this nature is going to get any real court scrutiny at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@John\_F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_F)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/34 "2005-09-26T23:17:21Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > You might try calling Don Chessher, Mayor, at City Hall: 830-582-1924. I’ll call tomorrow and see what they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![czygabe77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e495f1/32.png) [@czygabe77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/czygabe77)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/35 "2005-09-27T07:34:08Z")
whether or not its legal or not does not change the fact that its wrong. i would wait at the pump and talk to everyone that came. i would buy gas from someone to get it in the first place. family and life come first. later on i would deck the guy. my name is gabriel, but im no angel. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413/36 "2005-09-27T13:24:36Z")
> [@Random](#): > > And it’s difficult to imagine a situation where a hotel, for example, would need to call in the state to enforce its Kamaaina discount policy. Though it’d be interesting to see a privileges and immunities argument made an out-of-state defendant in a Hawaiian court collection lawsuit brought by a hotel alleging nonpayment (where the defendant offered to pay the in-state rate). The use of the state courts would arguably be the necessary state action. Indeed it has been held to be so. [Shelley v. Kramer](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/shelley.html) (“The short of the matter is that from the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment until the present, it has been the consistent ruling of this Court that the action of the States to which the Amendment has reference includes action of state courts and state judicial officials.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-locals-only-legal/323413.md?page=1)