# Is Lord Vetinari good or bad? (Discworldcentric) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638 "2003-04-05T04:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/1 "2003-04-05T04:33:58Z")
I can never quite figure out Lord Vetinari. I know he used to be an assasin (the best), but he is sort of a friend of Vimes, and seems like a good guy when he makes decisions and talks to people. Yet, I have only recently seen what he looks like, and he looks evil. Which Discworld book has the most Vetinari in it? (or which book is _about_ him?) Vimes is still my favourite by far, and probably always will be, but Vetinari intrigues me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/2 "2003-04-05T04:36:53Z")
Shi…damn! I meant to post this in Cafe Society:smack: (:wally) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/3 "2003-04-05T05:12:57Z")
Lord Vetinari does what he thinks is best for Ankh-Morpork. Of course, he considers himself to be the personification of Ankh-Morpork, so it all works out in the end. For himself, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/4 "2003-04-05T05:28:54Z")
A vote for good, here. He’s made the place what it is, and that can only be a good thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/5 "2003-04-05T06:24:34Z")
He is good as opposed to bad, not good as opposed to evil. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/6 "2003-04-05T06:51:42Z")
He keeps the wheels well oiled, and doesn’t like anything that gets in the way of his smoothly running city. Ruthless, but decent. And dare I say it, fair in the true impartial sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![TheFunkySpaceCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@TheFunkySpaceCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFunkySpaceCowboy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/7 "2003-04-05T07:22:11Z")
He does a good job of running the city and he handles the job with style and aplomb and that goes a long way. Plus he juggles, and that’s just neat. - Jingo \* devotes a lot of time Vetinari and is also where we see him juggle, btw. ---
**Author:** ![dman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f0a364/32.png) [@dman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/8 "2003-04-05T08:18:20Z")
He is the perfect **benign dictator** (as searched for recently in other threads here). We never _see him_ kill, oppress the populace or anything. Although he may be said to rule by fear, I always get the impression that it’s due to reputation (spin) not any actual acts. As mentioned often throughout the books, he’s much better than any other ruler in history. He is that oxymoron - a good politician. I’d vote for him 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/9 "2003-04-05T08:20:03Z")
I’ll move this to Cafe Society for you. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/10 "2003-04-05T08:21:30Z")
Guards, Guards is a great Vetinari-Vimes book. I just LOVE the way Vetinari and Vimes interact in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/11 "2003-04-05T08:23:56Z")
No, you can’t really say that Vetinari is a baddie. The reference to him juggling fits what he does – he juggles the Guilds, making sure not one can gain ascendency over the others, and therefore lead Ankh-Morpork into the depths it was when Vimes was just starting out in the Watch. It’s kind of like saying that the winner of a well-played chess game is neither good nor evil – just a very good strategist. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/12 "2003-04-05T09:11:30Z")
Chaotic neutral 😛 He does what needs to be done with the justification that all means validate the end result of the continuity of A-M. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/13 "2003-04-05T11:46:15Z")
Vetinari is very, very EFFICIENT. He’s against unnecessary cruelty, though he will be cruel if the task requires. But consider how he treats Leonardo di Quirm…Leo has everything he wants and needs, and Vetinari is protecting a priceless natural resource. ---
**Author:** ![big\_yellow\_kingswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@big\_yellow\_kingswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/big_yellow_kingswood)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/14 "2003-04-05T12:43:15Z")
I’m just reading “Sourcery” for the _n_th time, and Vetinari is an arsehole at the beginning of it. I haven’t finished it yet, so I can’t remember if being turned into a lizard changes him… I’m with **lee** though. He’s just good at what he does. Like Death. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/15 "2003-04-05T13:37:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by big\_yellow\_kingswood \* > \*\*I’m just reading “Sourcery” for the _n_th time, and Vetinari is an arsehole at the beginning of it. I haven’t finished it yet, so I can’t remember if being turned into a lizard changes him… > > I’m with **lee** though. He’s just good at what he does. Like Death. \*\* That might be a good place not to go – I get the feeling that after Sourcery Pratchett went with Discworld V 2.0. A lot of the characters stuck around but they’re allmost all changed. Plus the heroine of the book is never even referenced again (I can’t even remember her name now). ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/16 "2003-04-05T13:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Iteki \* > **Chaotic neutral 😛** No way is he chaotic. Vetinari is lawful if anyone is. He has legislated crime, for god’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/17 "2003-04-05T16:06:54Z")
The ultimate manifestation of _realpolitik_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/18 "2003-04-05T16:34:05Z")
Vetinari’s not good nor evil so much as a mix of both. As **lee** put it, he’s good as opposed to bad. He doesn’t go to great lengths to safeguard the welfare of the citizens, but he wants the city to run smoothly (by Ankh-Morpork standards, which are very loose standards). While he can be ruthless when he needs to be, he isn’t ruthless just for the hell of it. While his taxes suffice to maintain him in a reasonably opulent palace, he’s not running a kleptocracy. If you were an Ankh-Morpork resident, there would be far worse people to have in charge of the city than Lord Vetinari. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/19 "2003-04-05T17:09:02Z")
One rule of thumb I use is: what the rich folk want is evil, so going against them is the side of good. Vetinari is quite loathed by the rich and powerful in Ankh-Morpork. Lot’s of scheming on their part to put a “decent person” in charge. (I think “The Truth” was basically about this??) That makes him a good guy in my book. Or in short: Enlightened despot. ---
**Author:** ![Fiat\_Lux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea666f/32.png) [@Fiat\_Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiat_Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638/20 "2003-04-05T19:06:38Z")
He’s good for Ankh-Morpork and we see in _Jingo_ that he has morals (he doesn’t use Leonard to make warmachines), but all in all, I wouldn’t say he’s good _or_ bad. He just is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lord-vetinari-good-or-bad-discworldcentric/166638.md?page=2)