# Is LOTR really a homoerotic drug fantasy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954 "2004-03-23T18:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nocturnal\_tick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@nocturnal\_tick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nocturnal_tick)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/1 "2004-03-23T18:49:08Z")
Ok I’ll admit it. Me and my friends were pretty wasted when we came up with this idea…at 2 AM but the idea still has foundations, well supposedly. Here is the idea: The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring is really a (male) homosexually orientated film with constant drug references. Here is the proof: The name “lord of the rings” clearly describes anal sex. You have to believe this for other things to make sense. Everyone is after the ring. Therefore is ring = anus everyone is gay. The eye of Sauron, obviously the shape of a vagina, therefore vaginas are the enemy. The fellowship, all guys, without g/f’s (except Strider / Aragorn) Every time Frodo plays with his ring, look at his face. You know he’s getting off. Frodo and Sam. Need I say more. Well I will. The very last scene watch as the two are on top of the mountainside. I can’t remember which but one of them seriously gives the other a quick checking out as if to say, “Hmmm your nice”. (This is the best example) Now for the drugs: Hobbits always smoking. Why? Because there smoking the weed. The ring is addictive but thats just overall drugs. Frodo is “poisoned” by the Wraith’s dagger = overdose caused by injecting heroin When they visit the Elves and Frodo speaks to Cate Blanchett. Firstly she’s obviously an addict, second what do you think’s in that water? Same goes for Bilbo in Rivendell. The Orc at that towers. Burning all the “trees” obviously a drugs factory, therefore Saruman is a dealer. That’s all I can think of now but there were tons. Being drunk at 2 in the morning it was such a laugh. Is this at all making sense? Am I possibly right? If not please excuse me and my warped little mind. hehehe. Frodo’s ring. hehehe. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/2 "2004-03-23T18:53:21Z")
you are teh stupid ---
**Author:** ![nocturnal\_tick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@nocturnal\_tick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nocturnal_tick)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/3 "2004-03-23T18:57:00Z")
teh?! I know it’s stupid but even in my sober state now thinking back, it made a lot of sense you just have to watch it and see for yourself. . . . . . . Oh who am I kidding I’m stupid. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/4 "2004-03-23T19:02:18Z")
Though I don’t completely agree with EVERYTHING you said in your post, I will agree that every time I watch LOTR, it strikes me that there are some pretty serious homoerotic themes throughout. . . 1. Frodo and Sam (DUH) 2. Merry and Pippin 3. Legolas and Gimli (kind of a Beatrice and Benedict love/hate thing) Not a whole lot of straight love in those stories. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/5 "2004-03-23T19:10:34Z")
That is just so wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/6 "2004-03-23T19:22:26Z")
OK. I’ll assume this is mostly just a fun post and won’t get into context, author’s stated premises, etc. The beauty about LOTR is that it is many takes on Good & Evil, Moral & Immoral, Truth & Deceit, Power vs Strength. As such you can interpret it pretty much how ever you want. Conspiracy theories work the same way your theory does: Backwards from an assumption with supporting evidence discovered _after_ the ASSumption. I’ve lately fallen into musing the EVIL characters as being current Republican Party members in a struggle to finalize dominance over the relatively weak–to quote Elrond, “Scattered, divided and leaderless” Democrats in US government. Trouble is, I can’t seem to locate a likely “Gandalf.” So Unlike Middle Earth, The USA has no hope. For instance. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/7 "2004-03-23T19:24:27Z")
I dunno about no Lord of the Rings, but I saw some Rorschach inkblot tests that _undeniably_ had drug-crazed homosexuality in them. I almost punched that candy-ass doctor for showin’ me them dirty pitchers! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/8 "2004-03-23T20:38:09Z")
Of course the OP’s right. Just not to have an opposite-sex SO makes you gay by default. Close male friendships, doubly damning. :rolleyes: Master and servant relation, implying dominance and submission, triply damning. Only Aragorn and Arwen had a (presumably) normal hetero relationship; everyone else in the story is gay. Especially that Frodo and Bilbo…confirmed bachelors to the end. Seriously though. The ‘weed’ smoked by the hobbits has been clearly described as a kind of tobacco. Viz the appendix in the novel. As for the homoerotic part, grow the f\* up. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/9 "2004-03-23T22:22:29Z")
> [@Alias](#): > > 1. Legolas and Gimli (kind of a Beatrice and Benedict love/hate thing) [nitpick] Benedick. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Draknek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@Draknek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draknek)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/10 "2004-03-23T22:37:03Z")
Sam will kill them if they try anything. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/11 "2004-03-23T23:49:41Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > As for the homoerotic part, grow the f\* up. Just because you’re uncomfortable with the idea doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Not that I agree with the drunken ramblings of the OP but to dismiss the possibility of homoeroticism in LOTR just seems kinda, I dunno, ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/12 "2004-03-23T23:53:36Z")
Not going to tackle the homoerotica issue, but re. drugs… Watch Gollum. Anyone who’s had any experience with addiction, whether yourself or someone close to you, will instantly recognize this character. And know enough not to trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/13 "2004-03-24T00:24:29Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Not going to tackle the homoerotica issue, but re. drugs… > > Watch Gollum. Anyone who’s had any experience with addiction, whether yourself or someone close to you, will instantly recognize this character. And know enough not to trust him. IIRC, the actor played Gollum with an addict in mind for just that reason. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/14 "2004-03-24T00:32:27Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > IIRC, the actor played Gollum with an addict in mind for just that reason. Really? I hadn’t heard that; wow, I feel all smart now. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![HDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@HDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HDS)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/15 "2004-03-24T00:53:29Z")
Lord of the Rings just is. The authour cautioned against reading too much into it in the introduction I have in my copy. However, the pervy hobbit fancier that I am really really really liked the jumping on the bed scene in ROTK. Especially the look Sam gives Frodo. _melts_ ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/16 "2004-03-24T00:53:44Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Just because you’re uncomfortable with the idea doesn’t mean it’s wrong. > > Not that I agree with the drunken ramblings of the OP but to dismiss the possibility of homoeroticism in LOTR just seems kinda, I dunno, ignorant. I’ve read the novel more times than I can count, so I think my observations have a great deal of validity. It’s not a question of being uncomfortable. It’s just that I see LOTR as part of the heroic epic tradition, and that the sexuality of the characters is largely unimportant. Moreover, at the time the story was concieved and written, the characters in heroic epics were usually heroes and not heroines. So it seemed entirely natural that most of the significant characters in LOTR are male. It also seems entirely natural that the members of the Fellowship would break off into twos and threes at the end of the first movie/book. They’re just _friends_, guys. Given the context of the story and the tradition from which the book came, I think to assume anything beyond that is to let your imagination run wild. It isn’t about sex. What saddens me is that it seems to be the assumption nowadays that if two guys happen to end up together, they’re thought to be gay. I can understand gay people making such an assumption, because it would be an appealing outcome…just as a straight person likes to see the guy and girl and up together. But when straight people make the assumption, it’s as if to say that men can’t have close friendships _without_ being assumed gay. It seems like many types of relationships that once carried no such connotation now do. Take for instance Frodo and Sam. It happens to be a fact that prior to WWII, a rich, single man often had another man living under their roof, called a ‘valet’ or ‘servant’, who cooked, cleaned, and looked after his clothing. Sam’s actually more of a gardener, but the principle’s the same. But that’s the historical context of that relationship, and yet nowadays, there are many people who would say, “that’s so gay!” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/17 "2004-03-24T01:00:26Z")
I think the OP is much more on target regarding the Ring, and drugs. I remember especially how Frodo had it constantly on his mind; that he was constantly worried about and preoccupied with it. It so happens that many years ago, I once acquired a small vial of a certain white powder, and remembered it worrying my mind in just the same way. I feared it would be lost, or found, or that something bad would happen because of it. That was my only experience owning any of that certain white powder. Now I wasn’t addicted, but I could certainly understand some of the thought processes which an addict must go through. _Where’s my stuff? What’s happened to my stuff? Where can I get some more stuff? Oh no, I’m almost out of stuff!_ ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/18 "2004-03-24T01:03:31Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > It’s not a question of being uncomfortable. It’s just that I see LOTR as part of the heroic epic tradition, and that the sexuality of the characters is largely unimportant. I agree… But Sam wants Frodo in the worst way. ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/19 "2004-03-24T01:12:13Z")
I think [THIS](http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/) might shed some light on the topic! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954/20 "2004-03-24T03:04:52Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > It’s not a question of being uncomfortable. It’s just that I see LOTR as part of the heroic epic tradition, and that the sexuality of the characters is largely unimportant. Yeah, the sexuality of those Greek epic heroes is so unimportant… Ever notice that sexuality of characters seems to become unimportant when it’s _homo_sexuality that’s being suggested? Hmmm… > [@](#): > > What saddens me is that it seems to be the assumption nowadays that if two guys happen to end up together, they’re thought to be gay. Why does that “sadden” you? If it’s right, it’s right. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. Why be sad about it? > [@](#): > > It happens to be a fact that prior to WWII, a rich, single man often had another man living under their roof, called a ‘valet’ or ‘servant’, who cooked, cleaned, and looked after his clothing. It also happens to be a fact that prior to WW2 men in homosexual relationships would live in constructions like “master” and “valet” as a cover for their true lives. Is every such relationship in life or in literature gay? Of course not. Is it unreasonable to read Frodo and Sam as a couple? No. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lotr-really-a-homoerotic-drug-fantasy/235954.md?page=2)