# Is Lou Dobbs actually retarded? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185 "2008-02-19T00:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/21 "2008-02-19T04:56:14Z")
deleted-doublepost ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/22 "2008-02-19T04:57:40Z")
[QUOTE=cricetus] I have yet to meet an Obama supporter who thinks he’s the messiah or walks on water. [/QUOTE] Well, he got here from Hawaii somehow didn’t he? I love how Obama is damned near becoming the Teflon Don of the campaign. Hillary attacks and his ratings go up, her’s down. This is going to be one great “pull up the easy chair and put the Jiffy Pop on the burner” campaign! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/23 "2008-02-19T05:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I disagree. There are two aspects to an act of plagiarism. One is that you deprive the original author of the credit. The other is that you bask in a light that you do not fully deserve. Just because the original author might say it is okay, doesn’t mean that the person seeking to benefit from whatever admiration the words may garner him is off the hook. [/quote] Oh bullshit, you moron. > [@magellan01](#): > > also, I was surprised to see that Obama, who has handled himself extremely well, tried to defend himself by claiming that Clinton used his words, when the phrases she used were not as distinct/ownable as what he used. I was disappointed in that. She _has_ used his words in _blatant_ rip-off attempts. **Yes we can!** ; Obama’s. But Hillary [just had to steal the line](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/tobyharnden/feb2008/hillaryyeswecan.htm). [More than once](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/02/clinton_says_ob.html). She’s also [“Fired up and Ready to go”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rweVOO-fhug). Her boy Howard Wolfson’s [in on the game, as well](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL6tvOIKtUY). How about when [Hillary “steals” her own husband’s lines and regurgitates them](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/clinton-take-two-hillary-steals-husbands-best-lines-473130.html) as if they were her own, hmmmm? Let’s play “guess who said it!” > [@](#): > > There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed by what is right about America. I’ll give you 2 guesses. And either way, YOU CAN’T LOSE! Because if you answered, ‘Hillary Clinton,’ you’d be RIGHT (said in the peroration of a speech to a Hispanic group in April, 2006) And if you answered, ‘Bill Clinton’, you’d ALSO be right! Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! (said at his first inaugural address on January 20, 1993.) And guess what?! Hillary wrote a book – oh WAIT, her _ghostwriter_ wrote a book _for_ her, and Hillary didn’t even _acknowledge_ her. How’s _that_ for “stealing” someone’s writing? [Suck on this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHAB27nLn6M) why don’t ya? And while we’re ranting about the fucking MORONS in the MSM who’re carrying on about this issue, how about we give a special **FUCK YOU WITH A HOT BRANDING IRON WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE, YOU JACKASSES** to MSNBC for [this racist piece of shit](http://cliffschecter.bravenewfilms.org/blog/29666-and-it-continues-more-obama-osama-confusion) they pulled in their coverage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/24 "2008-02-19T05:07:50Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] And while we’re ranting about the fucking MORONS in the MSM who’re carrying on about this issue, how about we give a special **FUCK YOU WITH A HOT BRANDING IRON WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE, YOU JACKASSES** to MSNBC for [this racist piece of shit](http://cliffschecter.bravenewfilms.org/blog/29666-and-it-continues-more-obama-osama-confusion) they pulled in their coverage of it. [/QUOTE] I’ve got to think that was an accident – a stupid one, but an accident. Chris Matthews is not that kind of a sleaze and besides, he’s been almost ecstatic in his praise and excitement about Obama. Some stoned intern probably pulled the wrong file or something. I don’t believe there was anything intentional about it. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/25 "2008-02-19T05:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t hate Hillary…or John McCain either, for that matter. But this isn’t “something coming up,” it came directly from the HRC campaign. [/QUOTE] In a campaign “something always comes up.” W’s drunk driving in 2000, Kerry swiftboat in 2004, Carter “I have lust in my heart” in 1976, Mike in the tank in 1988, and on and on. I’m just suggesting that saying “that’s negative” Hillary did this, ain’t gonna fly in the general election. He did copy the other guy’s speech, with permission. That’s accurate, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/26 "2008-02-19T05:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Wait, is Dobbs really that dumb? I tried to get a transcript, but it doesn’t appear that it is available yet. Could his point have been that, “Yes, words are important, very important. And if Obama believes that, he should have attributed them to the original speaker”? [/QUOTE] Here’s the quote from Dobbs that I presume the OP is refering to: > [@possibly retarded Dobbs](#): > > And also I personally just between you and me, Candy, I resent the idea that either of these men [Obama and Patrick] would refer to I have a dream or all we have to fear is fear itself or we hold these truths to be self evident as simply words because a great deal of pain and suffering and in many cases blood was shed to fulfill the meaning of those words. I would hope they would reconsider their rhetoric, both of them. It appears that Dobbs is indeed retarded. No word yet on whether he also thinks Obama has leprosy or not. full transcript [here](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/18/ldt.01.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/27 "2008-02-19T05:14:39Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] In a campaign “something always comes up.” W’s drunk driving in 2000, Kerry swiftboat in 2004, Carter “I have lust in my heart” in 1976, Mike in the tank in 1988, and on and on. I’m just suggesting that saying “that’s negative” Hillary did this, ain’t gonna fly in the general election. [/quote] But Hillary campaign is the party MAKING the accusation. It didn’t just come up randomly independent of the campaign. > [@](#): > > He did copy the other guy’s speech, with permission. That’s accurate, isn’t it? Not really. He used a single line at Patrick’s own suggestion. That’s not “copying a speech.” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/28 "2008-02-19T05:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’ve got to think that was an accident – a stupid one, but an accident. Chris Matthews is not that kind of a sleaze and besides, he’s been almost ecstatic in his praise and excitement about Obama. Some stoned intern probably pulled the wrong file or something. I don’t believe there was anything intentional about it. [/QUOTE] Notice I didn’t name him, specifically. My rage is directed at _whatever_ moron(s) put Bin Laden’s picture up instead of Barack’s. They need to be fired and publicly flogged. Assholes. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/29 "2008-02-19T05:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] I don’t understand how this is different then using a speech writer. Candidates don’t usually credit speech writers for specific parts of their speeches, do they? [/QUOTE] A speechwriter is paid to craft words for you. You can change and edit what they say because it is, ostensibly, you doing the talking. Everyone knows politicians use speechwriters. But if you choose to use a phrase someone else has come up with because it makes the point you want to make very well, an attribution is called for. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/30 "2008-02-19T05:21:07Z")
[Here’s Deval Patrick’s original speech](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhQtoVe-lh8), for the record. You’ll find they share a lot of the same thoughts and values and ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/31 "2008-02-19T05:29:00Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] A speechwriter is paid to craft words for you. You can change and edit what they say because it is, ostensibly, you doing the talking. Everyone knows politicians use speechwriters. But if you choose to use a phrase someone else has come up with because it makes the point you want to make very well, an attribution is called for. [/QUOTE] I don’t really get the difference. If Obama paid Patrick 5$, would it then not be plagiarism? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/32 "2008-02-19T05:35:47Z")
Quoting Lou Dobbs: > [@](#): > > And also I personally just between you and me, Candy, I resent the idea that either of these men would refer to “_I have a dream_” or “_All we have to fear is fear itself_” or _We hold these truths to be self evident_ as simply “words” because a great deal of pain and suffering and, in many cases, blood was shed to fulfill the meaning of those words. I would hope they would reconsider their rhetoric, both of them. Is this or is this not Lou Dobbs quoting Martin Luther King, Jr., Franklin Roosevelt, and Thomas Jefferson without attribution? My, my, my, my, my… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/33 "2008-02-19T05:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Oh bullshit, you moron. [/QUOTE] Oh really? Well why don’t you explain where you think what I wrote was wrong. Here it is again for you: [QUOTE=magellan01] I disagree. There are two aspects to an act of plagiarism. One is that you deprive the original author of the credit. The other is that you bask in a light that you do not fully deserve. Just because the original author might say it is okay, doesn’t mean that the person seeking to benefit from whatever admiration the words may garner him is off the hook. [/QUOTE] As far as the rest of your stupidity—and it really shows an awesome degree of it, here’s a little lesson. The lines you think Obama owns he is _attempting_ to own (which is smart). TheYes, we can line he is trying to appropriate from the union mantra. This, too is smart, but difficult to do as it is first associated with unions. The “fired up and ready to go” is tougher for him, as it is a common colloquialism. That more common the colloquialism, the more difficult it is to appropriate and own. If I used it in a meeting today, am I somehow referencing Obama? No. Now, if he used it ALL THE TIME, with consistency, he could begin to own it and have every use of it bring him to mind. But he ain’t there yet. If he were, no other politician would _want_ to go near it. He has, on the other hand, done an excellent job so far of trying to own “change”. Of course he can’t really own the word, but by using it ALL the time, and ridiculing others when they try to use it, it is becoming his. FYI: these are similar to the steps corporations must take if they want to protect their names and/or slogans. They must be consistent in its use and demonstrate that they are quick to defend it when it is encroached upon. Hope that helps. You maroon, you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/34 "2008-02-19T05:46:52Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] I don’t really get the difference. If Obama paid Patrick 5$, would it then not be plagiarism? [/QUOTE] It doesn’t work that way. You can’t do it after the fact—after someone already has credit for it. The idea is that speechwriters help you craft your own thoughts and words. You are, most often, intimately involved in the final words. Many of which have been edited/supplied by you. If I recall correctly, Reagan had a very heavy blue pen, and often would simply right his own stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/35 "2008-02-19T05:50:46Z")
Evidently this is a CNN thing rather than just Lou Dobbs as Larry King and Anderson Cooper are also addressing it tonight. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/36 "2008-02-19T05:51:37Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] Here’s the quote from Dobbs that I presume the OP is refering to: [/quote] That is what I was referring to. There wasn’t a transcript available yet as I posted that right after Dobbs said it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/37 "2008-02-19T05:56:58Z")
[QUOTE=CynicalGabe] That is what I was referring to. There wasn’t a transcript available yet as I posted that right after Dobbs said it. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I just read that. It seems like a mighty dumb thing for Dobbs to say. Based on what preceded what you cited, I think it likely that Dobbs was trying—very,very poorly—to make some nuanced point. One that I cannot see. But I think you can say many things about Lou Dobbs, but “that he is stupid” isn’t one of them. Although this incident may be a start in changing that. For the time being, though, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/38 "2008-02-19T05:58:49Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] It doesn’t work that way. You can’t do it after the fact—after someone already has credit for it. The idea is that speechwriters help you craft your own thoughts and words. You are, most often, intimately involved in the final words. Many of which have been edited/supplied by you. If I recall correctly, Reagan had a very heavy blue pen, and often would simply right his own stuff. [/QUOTE] Obama didn’t use the whole speech from Patrick, just the a few lines. Presumably the speech itself reflected Obama’s own thoughts and words. And honestly, while I’m sure there are exceptions, I think you have an overblown view of how much politicians contribute to their own speeches. I suspect that in many cases, they pretty much just edit what the speechwriters and other staffers give them and repeat it more or less verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/39 "2008-02-19T06:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] Obama didn’t use the whole speech from Patrick, just the a few lines. Presumably the speech itself reflected Obama’s own thoughts and words. [/QUOTE] I don’t think I implied otherwise. I certainly didn’t mean to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185/40 "2008-02-19T06:01:36Z")
I heard on _All Things Considered_ this evening, that Obama says (now) he should have attributed the line to Patrick. Good on him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lou-dobbs-actually-retarded/438185.md?page=3)