# Is Lying Endemic in American Culture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478 "2008-12-16T23:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/1 "2008-12-16T23:23:00Z")
I seem to remember a study done years ago, by some business school professor-his conclusion was yes. From highly deceptive advertising, to the fine print on agreements, to general conversation. It seems to me the guy wasright-take restaurants: they will advertise a dish , say veal parmigini-and you order it to find that you have been served some kind of “mystery meat”. Or take patent medicines (diet drugs)-the little disclaimer “results not typical”-speaks volumes. Or government-you pay a special tax (“earmarked” for education)-and find that it goes to something else. So, given the rampant dishonesty, why don’t we just accept it and assume everything is untrue. Is this the best way? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/2 "2008-12-16T23:59:23Z")
Did the study in question compare American culture to **other** cultures? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/3 "2008-12-17T00:03:44Z")
Produce the study, and we have something to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/4 "2008-12-17T00:33:57Z")
Bewfore you go any further in this discussion, I would urge all interested in the topic to read this article and possibly explore more in other articles mentioned. You will find lying is part and parcel of the human condition and is even beyond our control. > **[Lying Is Good For You](https://www.forbes.com/2005/10/19/lying-dishonesty-psychology_cx_lr_comm05_1024lie.html)** > > No kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/5 "2008-12-17T02:53:49Z")
Ye… I mean, no. Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/6 "2008-12-17T05:23:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > **Is Lying Endemic in American Culture?** No. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/7 "2008-12-17T05:46:24Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I seem to remember a study done years ago, by some business school professor-his conclusion was yes. From highly deceptive advertising, to the fine print on agreements, to general conversation. > It seems to me the guy wasright-take restaurants: they will advertise a dish , say veal parmigini-and you order it to find that you have been served some kind of “mystery meat”. Or take patent medicines (diet drugs)-the little disclaimer “results not typical”-speaks volumes. > Or government-you pay a special tax (“earmarked” for education)-and find that it goes to something else. > So, given the rampant dishonesty, why don’t we just accept it and assume everything is untrue. Is this the best way? Cite for the veal example? The medicines aren’t actually lying, and you should know better than to trust certain things. Cite for the government example? Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/8 "2008-12-17T14:08:36Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > Bewfore you go any further in this discussion, I would urge all interested in the topic to read this article and possibly explore more in other articles mentioned. > > You will find lying is part and parcel of the human condition and is even beyond our control. > > [http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/19/lying-dishonesty-psychology\_cx\_lr\_comm05\_1024lie.html](http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/19/lying-dishonesty-psychology_cx_lr_comm05_1024lie.html) I agree that lying is common, partly because people fill-in the blanks of what they want their reality to be with their imagination. But lying is not beyond our control, we can be honest if we wish. It takes courage, a lot of it, and you don’t have to hurt others. It is not so much what you say as how you say it. Be kind. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/9 "2008-12-17T14:11:31Z")
[American kids lie, cheat, steal at alarming rate](http://www.breitbart.com/print.php?id=081201214432.rjut4n2u) > [@](#): > > American teenagers lie, steal and cheat more at “alarming rates,” a study of nearly 30,000 high school students concluded Monday. > > The attitudes and conduct of some 29,760 high school students across the United States “doesn’t bode well for the future when these youngsters become the next generation’s politicians and parents, cops and corporate executives, and journalists and generals,” the non-profit Josephson Institute said. > > In its 2008 Report Card on the Ethics of American Youth, the Los Angeles-based organization said the teenagers’ responses to questions about lying, stealing and cheating “reveals entrenched habits of dishonesty for the workforce of the future.” > [@](#): > > Despite no significant gender differences on exam cheating, students from non-religious independent schools had the lowest cheating rate, 47 percent, compared to 63 percent of students attending religious schools. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/10 "2008-12-17T15:25:12Z")
Yeah, but religious schools count praying for guidance during an exam as cheating. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/11 "2008-12-17T15:32:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, but religious schools count praying for guidance during an exam as cheating. I smell burning. Pants I think. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/12 "2008-12-17T16:00:53Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > Bewfore you go any further in this discussion, I would urge all interested in the topic to read this article and possibly explore more in other articles mentioned. > > You will find lying is part and parcel of the human condition and is even beyond our control. > > [http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/19/lying-dishonesty-psychology\_cx\_lr\_comm05\_1024lie.html](http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/19/lying-dishonesty-psychology_cx_lr_comm05_1024lie.html) Somebody got paid to write that juvenile piece of shit? In effect, we’re all weasels and want to avoid hard truths. Please tell me the author is a very young person. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/13 "2008-12-17T16:46:50Z")
BwanaBob Dr. Robert Feldman is a University of Massachusetts psychologist and an expert in his field and a well known authority on the behavior of lying. It is fine to disagree with his findings if you find some area of dispute. To attack him in the manner you did does not serve you or any pursuit of truth. Perhaps it is the message that offends you rather than the messenger? Perhaps his findings do not sit well with your own personal beliefs about yourself or others? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/14 "2008-12-17T17:01:38Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Produce the study, and we have something to talk about. I read that study. In fact, I wrote it. Yeah, that’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/15 "2008-12-17T17:40:56Z")
With my wife…Morgan Fairchild! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/16 "2008-12-17T18:23:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Despite no significant gender differences on exam cheating, students from non-religious independent schools had the lowest cheating rate, 47 percent, compared to 63 percent of students attending religious schools. Yet from right above that paragraph. > [@](#): > > Amongst those surveyed, 64 percent said they had cheated on a test, compared to 60 percent in 2006. So our public schools, where church is so wonderfully separated from state, must have the highest rate of cheating. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/17 "2008-12-17T18:31:09Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So, given the rampant dishonesty, why don’t we just accept it and assume everything is untrue. Is this the best way? This won’t work. In the final analysis, all of civilization and society are based on honesty. There must be at least some voluntary honesty from the majority of people or else the entire social structure simply breaks down. For example, store shopping depends on most people not shoplifting most of the time. If everybody decided to take as much as they could without paying, stores simply wouldn’t be able to stay in business. So some measure of voluntary honesty is needed there. Investing also requires honesty. I give my money to the Vanguard Group and simply make the assumption that they’re investing it where they say they are, and that the numbers on my reports are accurate reflections of what I’ve earned. A sufficiently intelligent person could set up a fraudulent investment group and evade the safeguards. (See: Madoff, Enron, and others that haven’t been caught yet). The entire financial system rests on the assumption that most bigwigs are voluntarily playing by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/18 "2008-12-17T18:31:42Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I seem to remember a study done years ago, by some business school professor-his conclusion was yes. From highly deceptive advertising, to the fine print on agreements, to general conversation. > It seems to me the guy wasright-take restaurants: they will advertise a dish , say veal parmigini-and you order it to find that you have been served some kind of “mystery meat”. Or take patent medicines (diet drugs)-the little disclaimer “results not typical”-speaks volumes. > Or government-you pay a special tax (“earmarked” for education)-and find that it goes to something else. > So, given the rampant dishonesty, why don’t we just accept it and assume everything is untrue. Is this the best way? You are almost-exactly right. 😉 I think it’s a function of English with its ability to qualify superlatives. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/19 "2008-12-19T00:10:02Z")
As I say, from menus to advertising, everything is borderline. Last week, I went to a “seafood” restaurant, and ordered seafood Newburgh. Guess what the “crabmeat” in it was? It was “surimi”.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478/20 "2008-12-19T00:45:37Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > **Is Lying Endemic in American Culture?** Yes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-endemic-in-american-culture/477478.md?page=2)