# Is lying to the FBI illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 25, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455 "2018-01-25T16:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/1 "2018-01-25T16:30:32Z")
I thought lying to the FBI when they question you is a good way to find yourself in jail. However, recently news reported that president Trump would talk to the FBI under oath regarding it’s Russia investigation. Then, not long after, they said Trump would talk to them but not under oath. So, if lying to the FBI is illegal what need is there for taking an oath? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/2 "2018-01-25T16:32:38Z")
Aren’t there different crimes: lying to Police during Investigation = obstruction of justice lying under oath (e.g. during Trial) = perjury, higher sentence? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/3 "2018-01-25T16:37:44Z")
Though with Trump, it’s difficult because he can easily get a pardon for all crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/4 "2018-01-25T16:53:45Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Though with Trump, it’s difficult because he can easily get a pardon for all crimes. That hasn’t been decided yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/5 "2018-01-25T17:03:52Z")
I don’t know if it started with Republicans or with Trump, but some people point out that Hillary wasn’t under oath when she talked to the FBI and therefore, I guess, it means she lied or something. Trump has repeated this numerous times. Only problem is, the FBI doesn’t put people under oath for questioning. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/6 "2018-01-25T17:16:04Z")
IANAL but aren’t oaths used more in court proceedings than police questioning? To the original question, lying to the FBI is a felony. > [@](#): > > State laws can vary when it comes to false statements, but lying during federal investigation is a felony carrying a potential five year prison sentence. > > 18 U.S.C. § 1001 makes it a federal crime for anyone who “in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully … makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation.” The same statute has been used to convict and imprison Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libby, Bernard Madoff, Martha Stewart, and Jeffrey Skilling. [Cite](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2017/02/what-are-the-consequences-of-lying-to-the-fbi.html) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/7 "2018-01-25T18:02:47Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > knowingly and willfully … > [Cite](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2017/02/what-are-the-consequences-of-lying-to-the-fbi.html) That’s why it will never apply to politicans. They didn’t lie “willfully”, they simply “forgot” or “misremembered”. Given his latest doctor’s Report, he can just as easily find one to Attest him Alzheimer for as Long as the questioning takes, and another to certify him in the bestest health ever afterwards. (One of the prominent right-wing-consie politicans, Zimmermann, did this when he was accused of lying during court (perjury) and got a doctor to Attest “low blood sugar and thyroid hyperfunction” so he just couldn’t remember, poor guy! ([Spielbankenaffäre (Bayern) – Wikipedia](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spielbankenaff%C3%A4re_(Bayern)#Die_Urteile)) > [@](#): > > Der in der Spielbankenaffäre ebenfalls angeklagte CSU-Generalsekretär Friedrich Zimmermann wurde in einem anschließenden Verfahren 1960 wegen fahrlässigen Falscheides zu einer viermonatigen Freiheitsstrafe verurteilt. Zimmermann hatte bestritten, außer mit Freisehner auch mit einem anderen Konzessionär Kontakte gehabt zu haben, was widerlegt worden war. Ein weiteres Gericht hob aufgrund eines ärztlichen Attestes seine Strafe später auf. Laut dem Attest hatte er am Tage seiner unglaubwürdigen Aussage eine ihn beeinträchtigende Blutunterzuckerung und sei infolge einer Überfunktion der Schilddrüse geistig vermindert leistungsfähig gewesen. = > > - The also accused CSU General secretary Friedrich Zimmermann was sentenced to 4 months prison in a following Trial 1960 because of “negligent perjury” (already a slap on the wrist…). Zimmermann had denied having had contact with other concessionist except with Freisehner, which was disproven. > Another court lifted his sentence later due to a doctoral Attest. According to the Attest, on the day of his un-believable testimony he had low blood sugar, which affected him, and due to a thyrod hyperfunction his mental Performance was limited\* ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/8 "2018-01-25T18:04:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > That hasn’t been decided yet. Does the POTUS not have the total power of pardon (See: Arpaio)? And hasn’t a deal been done before where the POTUS resigns, his VP steps in his place and the new POTUS then issues a pardon for all crimes of the old one? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/9 "2018-01-25T18:07:45Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > IANAL but aren’t oaths used more in court proceedings than police questioning? FWIW here is a story on Trump answering questions under oath and a report that he is backtracking on it (although I could only find the one story for a reversal there are a lot on him being willing to testify under oath): - [Trump Says He Is Willing to Speak Under Oath to Mueller](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-mueller.html) - [Trump lawyer backtracks on President’s promise to testify under oath to Russia probe, claiming he ‘spoke hurriedly’](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-interview-mueller-russia-fbi-investigation-lawyer-spoke-hurriedly-latest-a8177236.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/10 "2018-01-25T18:10:22Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Does the POTUS not have the total power of pardon (See: Arpaio)? > > And hasn’t a deal been done before where the POTUS resigns, his VP steps in his place and the new POTUS then issues a pardon for all crimes of the old one? It is a debated question whether the president can pardon himself. It’s never happened so there is no clear answer. For my money it would be ridiculous if you could pardon yourself. It gives you carte blanche to do whatever federally illegal thing you want with impunity. It completely undermines the notion that no one is above the law. That said some say the pardon power is absolute including for himself so… Certainly whoever replaces him could pardon him as Ford did with Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/11 "2018-01-25T18:40:42Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I don’t know if it started with Republicans or with Trump, but some people point out that Hillary wasn’t under oath when she talked to the FBI and therefore, I guess, it means she lied or something. Trump has repeated this numerous times. Only problem is, the FBI doesn’t put people under oath for questioning. The FBI said that Hillary didn’t lie to them. She’s a lawyer, she knew how to avoid that. Trump is a liar, it’s not possible for him to talk to anyone without lying. ETA: This is in no way an endorsement of Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/12 "2018-01-25T19:21:56Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Though with Trump, it’s difficult because he can easily get a pardon for all crimes. Not state crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/13 "2018-01-25T20:44:58Z")
The Constitution explicitly says that the pardon power cannot be used in cases of impeachment, and that’s the only limitation it puts on it (beyond the implicit limitation that it only applies to federal crimes). It seems pretty clear that if the President starts just violating federal law willy-nilly and pardoning himself, that impeachment is the intended remedy. If they’d meant that he couldn’t pardon himself at all, they would have said so. Yes, a self-pardon is unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean much, since there’s been almost no occasion for it to have been done, either. > [@](#): > > Quoth **constanze** : > > And hasn’t a deal been done before where the POTUS resigns, his VP steps in his place and the new POTUS then issues a pardon for all crimes of the old one? Yes, that’s what happened with Nixon and Ford. Nixon almost certainly would have been impeached and removed from office for his involvement in the Watergate burglaries (which would have been the first and so far only time a President was removed), but he saw the writing on the wall and voluntarily resigned before the process got that far, at which point his VP, Ford, took office. Shortly thereafter, Ford pardoned Nixon for all crimes which he might or might not have committed. Of course, it’s important to note that Ford was in no way obligated to do so; he did it because, in his judgement, it would do long-term harm to the nation to drag Nixon through the mud more than he already had been. If something similar happens again, the VP at that time might have a different opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/14 "2018-01-25T21:44:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Trump is a liar, it’s not possible for him to talk to anyone without lying. **Moderator Note** Let’s keep the political jabs out of GQ. (And before someone makes the argument, a statement can be factual and still be a jab.) Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/15 "2018-01-25T23:15:17Z")
[Ever](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/16 "2018-01-26T01:00:57Z")
> [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](#): > > [Ever](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ) It absolutely blows my mind that the FBI refuses to record interviews and only relies on notes that they write-up without ever getting agreement from the person interviewed that it is accurate. And then that the courts are a-ok with this because we presume FBI agents are scrupulous and above reproach in their duties. With recording devices in everyone’s pockets these days (your cell phone) it is trivial to record an interview and have a perfect record of what was said. To refuse using that can only be an admission that they want to be able to fudge the record as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/17 "2018-01-26T01:50:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It absolutely blows my mind that the FBI refuses to record interviews and only relies on notes that they write-up without ever getting agreement from the person interviewed that it is accurate. And then that the courts are a-ok with this because we presume FBI agents are scrupulous and above reproach in their duties. > > With recording devices in everyone’s pockets these days (your cell phone) it is trivial to record an interview and have a perfect record of what was said. To refuse using that can only be an admission that they want to be able to fudge the record as they see fit. Which begs a question: If lying to the police is obstruction of justice, is it also obstruction of justice if the police lie to a citizen or a suspect? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/18 "2018-01-26T02:05:56Z")
Lying to police is not obstruction of justice, it’s lying to the police. Lying to federal investigators, including the FBI, is a crime under [18 USC 1001](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001). In many (perhaps most?) states, there is no equivalent crime for lying to a police officer. Though they have other tools to deal with you. The police are permitted to lie their asses off. It is not obstruction of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/19 "2018-01-26T03:56:56Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The police are permitted to lie their asses off. It is not obstruction of justice. Would that not be perversion of the course of justice. Or is that not a thing is the US? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455/20 "2018-01-26T04:54:24Z")
It’s not that, either. The common-law offense of perverting the course of justice would be covered under evidence-tampering or witness intimidation statutes in most jurisdictions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-lying-to-the-fbi-illegal/807455.md?page=2)