# Is ma'am offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517 "2019-11-16T00:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/101 "2019-11-25T15:02:20Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > If you frequently have unrepresented parties in front of you, that’s not surprising. I would expect lawyers to know better. I never speak in “flowery language,” and you not expect that to show respect. I do speak more formally than I might in other contexts – court is not the place to say “n stuff” or “'kay.” I often get the impression reps act as they do to impress their clients, as opposed to trying to persuade the decision-maker. If you are a competent, responsible attorney, you may not appreciate how common it is for attorneys to appear completely unprepared, and to act as tho it is inappropriate for a judge to ask them to present a coherent theory under which their claim COULD be granted, as well as citing the evidence supporting that theory. No amount of “Your honors” are sufficient to make up for falling short of that mighty low bar. And how about answering the question asked, instead of the question you wish you had been asked. Judges might be dumb, but they are probably not THAT dumb! And when asked a yes/no question, how about you start your answer with either a yes or a no, and THEN proceed with the lengthy explanation/obfuscation? JME. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/102 "2019-11-25T19:40:08Z")
I am astonished that anyone would find it offensive, when used respectfully and not snarkily. “Sir” and “Ma’am” are the societal norms to show respect. These days it considered overly formal, but if the stranger in front of me at Starbucks leaves a wallet on the counter, I’ll say, “Excuse me sir/ma’am/miss, did you leave your wallet?” The correct respectful form of address for an adult woman is “ma’am” regardless of age or marital status. A waiter can address a 15-year-old as “miss.” Nobody should be offended at being called “sir” or “ma’am” but some people confuse being respected with being thought to be old. I will add that when I’m at the gym, some of the younger guys (I’m 62) will call me “sir” which I don’t like, because I feel it should be more of a peer environment where it’s not necessary to formalize respect to that degree. But if I’m paying someone to do a job I don’t mind if they call me “sir.” > [@Slash1972](#): > > As pointed out, “ma’am” is what military people call women superiors. > > I would never call anyone “Sir” or “Ma’am” in any other context. People do that? Well, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/103 "2019-11-25T21:07:03Z")
I prefer to be addressed as ma’am so strongly that I’ll insist on it if need be. Fortunately, everybody says ma’am to me wherever I go, so no worries. The rare time I’m addressed as “miss” I’m merely bemused. I’m 0.602 of a century and, just as \*\*Ulfreida \*\*said above, by now I’ve more than earned the title of ma’am and I embrace my maturity. To me, ma’am is the proper form of address, equivalent to sir, and sir goes unquestioned. It was disconcerting to me to hear mature adult women rejecting it on account of rejecting maturity. Even though I’m a Northerner (from Cleveland, which is literally _all the way_ north) and a lifelong civilian. I was raised properly is all. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/104 "2019-11-25T21:42:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, when you’re chatting with royalty something more ornate than a single syllable is called for, e.g. พระพุทธเจ้าข้า. (The final syllable here is not the usual ending syllable ค่ะ but an archaic word otherwise obsolescent in Central Thai. The word survives in Northern Thai; in fact it is the first sung syllable in [this famous song.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhnXGyhbXAc)) \*khā \*(with the diacritic changing it to a falling tone instead of the default high tone on the consonant ข้ kh), making it a homonym of the falling tone of _khā_, the declarative sentence tag (female speaker) that I use for saying, e.g., “_Dichan rak ahan Thai khā_” (with a different diacritic on the default low-tone consonant ค่ kh making it also a falling tone). Did I get that right? What makes ข้า \*khā \* so archaic? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/105 "2019-11-25T21:57:37Z")
I laughed when the serving wench/lady/ma’am at school wanted to get a little kindergarten kid’s attention, she called him SIR! nope didn’t catch him - IDK, what else to call him? hey bud? ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/106 "2019-11-25T22:40:09Z")
I do think there’s a huge association with ma’am = old. I don’t prefer being called ma’am, but it’s a good compromise between someone butchering my extremely south Indian last name and insistence on formality. Usually I offer, “Oh, just call me firstname,” or “Mrs. O will work!” Being called ma’am is jarring but only because I keep forgetting I’m getting old. It does make me scratch my head when people insist on being called by an honorific. Reminds me of this client we had who had a PhD. She insisted on being called “Doctor,” would scream at you if you forgot and threatened to poison an account manager’s dog because of it. Now that I think of it, maybe she had other issues instead. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/107 "2019-11-27T20:01:23Z")
I wouldn’t say it’s offensive, but I personally don’t really like it. Makes me feel much older than 31. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/108 "2019-11-27T20:32:09Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s offensive, but I personally don’t really like it. Makes me feel much older than 31. My son and his wife had a baby girl a few weeks ago. “Conratulations, Gramps” has gotten old already. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/109 "2019-11-27T22:42:53Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s offensive, but I personally don’t really like it. Makes me feel much older than 31. Just curious to learn more about this attitude: why do you think age has anything to do with its usage? As I’ve said, I used it to address college students who are definitely under 31. (And “sir” for the gents.) I never thought of either as being age-related. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/110 "2019-11-28T01:29:35Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Just curious to learn more about this attitude: why do you think age has anything to do with its usage? As I’ve said, I used it to address college students who are definitely under 31. (And “sir” for the gents.) I never thought of either as being age-related. I don’t know, I just have always associated “m’am” with someone 40+. It would seem extremely weird to me to call a 20-something “m’am.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/111 "2019-11-28T01:40:01Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I don’t know, I just have always associated “m’am” with someone 40+. It would seem extremely weird to me to call a 20-something “m’am.” I call 20 somethings and high schoolers sir and ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/112 "2019-11-28T01:58:58Z")
I call toddlers and school age scooter and sparky. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/113 "2019-11-28T18:45:13Z")
If you are in the South and someone says to you, “Bless your heart,” you have been offended. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/114 "2019-12-03T05:33:48Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It is the respectful female equivalent of “Sir” - but that doesn’t mean they are used equally. If Dinsdale normally refers to lawyers as “Counsel” and none of them have the opportunity to see how he refers to another lawyer, then the woman certainly didn’t see him referring to male attorneys as “Sir”. Now, she probably shouldn’t have assumed that he _wouldn’t_ have - but it does sometimes happen that someone refers to males by name or title but never " Sir" and refers to women by name or job title and sometimes “Ma’am”. I get called “Ma’am” in a lot of contexts by people who do not call my peers “Sir” in the same contexts - and does not come off as respectful. It comes off like someone referring to a “woman doctor” or a “male nurse”, making a point of my gender because it’s not the norm for people in my position. Fair points. If a male in authority uses different terms to refer to men and women, or different tones of voice, then there’s potentially an issue. But if a judge consistently refers to all lawyers as “counsel” regardless of gender, and occasionally uses “sir” for male lawyers and “ma’am” for female lawyers, just to break it up a bit and not always be repetitive, I think that would be okay. As you and **Elendil’s Heir** have both stated, the context and time of voice are important. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/115 "2019-12-03T05:37:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Just curious to learn more about this attitude: why do you think age has anything to do with its usage? As I’ve said, I used it to address college students who are definitely under 31. (And “sir” for the gents.) I never thought of either as being age-related. I suspect it’s because the term is falling out of favor to some extent. So it feels like a word older people would use, and that younger people use for older people to show respect to the terms those people would use. Plus younger people are less likely to insist on formality–same with using first names and such. I also find that being called sir by an older person doesn’t make me feel as old as when a young person does it. From an older person, it feels like old-timey respect. From a younger person, it feels like respect because I’m older. That is outside of any situation where there’s actually some sort of authority. Then sir feels like deference. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517/116 "2019-12-03T12:57:12Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > \*khā \*(with the diacritic changing it to a falling tone instead of the default high tone on the consonant ข้ kh), making it a homonym of the falling tone of _khā_, the declarative sentence tag (female speaker) that I use for saying, e.g., “_Dichan rak ahan Thai khā_” (with a different diacritic on the default low-tone consonant ค่ kh making it also a falling tone). Did I get that right? > > What makes ข้า \*khā \* so archaic? By the way, is there a special term for those ending syllables like _khā_ in your example? “Declarative sentence tag”? I just saw this post. [Here’s what Wiktionary says about ข้า](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%B8%82%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2). Four definitions are shown, two marked “archaic”; and just now I find that my principal informant is unfamiliar with the two definitions NOT marked “archaic.” I became aware of this word used as a 1st-person pronoun because my son used it when play-acting with his friends. They’d picked it up from TV series set in medieval Thailand. ข้า is also the first syllable of ข้าพเจ้า (kâa-pá-jâao), the formal 1st-person pronoun I often use, when I want to be slightly whimsical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-maam-offensive/843517.md?page=5)