# Is mackerel snapper hate speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 17, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783 "2012-01-17T11:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/21 "2012-01-17T18:51:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It also appeared in a 1942 book by Clyde Brion Davis called [Follow the Leader]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/Clyde](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/Clyde) Brion Davis) . And in [Red Sky at Morning](http://www.amazon.com/Red-Sky-Morning-Perennial-Classics/dp/0060931906), by Richard Bradford. First published in 1968, but set during WWII, when the phrase was probably in more common use. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/22 "2012-01-17T20:21:13Z")
How about “catlicker”? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/23 "2012-01-17T20:29:32Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > How about “catlicker”? [At least 1937](http://books.google.com/books?id=4oLQAAAAMAAJ&q=catlicker&dq=catlicker&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qtkVT8mVJuXw0gHEit2WAQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/24 "2012-01-17T20:30:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The only place I’ve seen it used was in the M_A_S\*H books. I believe it’s also used in Stephen King’s Needful Things. Interestingly set in northern New England where Richard Hooker went to school and used as the origin for his characters in MASH. Maybe it’s more widely used in those parts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/25 "2012-01-18T04:53:48Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I heard of a girl who went out fishing with five guys and came back with a red snapper. Led Zeppelin? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/26 "2012-01-18T04:56:00Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I heard of a girl who went out fishing with five guys and came back with a red snapper. Actually, she came back with crabs. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/27 "2012-01-18T10:57:20Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > We draw the line at racial/ethnic/religious slurs when prevalent opinion is that are derogatory, and when used in a derogatory fashion. For example, questions about the history or origin of an objectionable term would be acceptable. We have said that some such slurs are so mild, that it’s more trouble than it’s worth to make an issue of them. > > I frankly had never heard of “mackerel snapper” before you mentioned it. I think the answer would be that our reaction would depend on the usage; it’s not “hate speech” per se, but it could easily be viewed as unacceptable. > [@Colibri](#): > > I was raised Catholic, and have heard the term before. While derogatory, it’s also somewhat jocular. IMO, it doesn’t approach the level of hate speech. In GQ, I’d probably mod note it as a religious jab/insult. I wouldn’t take more serious action unless it were part of a general pattern of behavior. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > It’s not hate speech but it is a somewhat dated slap at Catholics. It’s not a compliment. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/28 "2012-01-18T12:47:59Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > It’s not hate speech but it is a somewhat dated slap at Catholics. It’s not a compliment. Wait… the SDMB doesn’t have some kind of rule against “hate speech” does it? I hate the hell out of that. OK…I’ll play along, why isn’t a Catholic slur hate speech then? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/29 "2012-01-18T12:54:04Z")
What definition of “hate speech” are you operating under? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/30 "2012-01-18T15:18:31Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Wait… the SDMB doesn’t have some kind of rule against “hate speech” does it? > > I hate the hell out of that. > > OK…I’ll play along, why isn’t a Catholic slur hate speech then? The “hate speech” policy is defined in the [BBQ Pit rules:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985) > [@](#): > > No hate speech > > If you say hateful and/or racist things, you may get warned or banned. Some slurs are likely to be viewed as hate speech when used as insults, some aren’t. No, we aren’t going to give you a list. Our goal is not to restrict any and all speech which could be viewed by someone as offensive, but simply keep a modicum of decency, even here. In my personal opinion, as someone from a Catholic background, “mackerel snapper,” while derogatory, is not nearly offensive enough to qualify as hate speech. Depending on context, it could be moderated as an insult/religious jab. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/31 "2012-01-18T23:37:07Z")
For some reason this thread reminds me of the kerfuffle over Liberal’s use of the term “hand stabber”. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/32 "2012-01-19T00:33:12Z")
Look, I am a white guy. About as white as it gets (except perhaps that 1/16th part Cherokee… but let’s not get into that). I don’t care if you call me a ‘honkie’ or a ‘cracker’, or gosh… what other things … I forget let me check… [A wonderful compendium of racial slurs](http://gyral.blackshell.com/names.html) WAIT is ‘redneck’ really a racial pejorative? Ahabs? Boguns? Buleh? Ditchpig? These are nonsensical. And, I’ll bet you none of you have ever heard these used as pejorative terms used for white people. Words have meaning. Words have power. It is the primary way we interact with each other. But, when we assign negative values to certain words, we do damage to those we apply them to. This happens because we are attempting to harm them with the words. It isn’t the word; it is instead the wielder of the word. So, the word ‘mackerel snapper’ if used meanly means JUST as much as when someone calls someone else ‘nigger’. It is not as if some magic spell was cast with the use of the word. It matters to the person it is said to. Think, y’all. I am a middle-aged white guy. I am walking down the street and a young black kid (8-9-10) says “Hey, nigger, love those shoes”. Do I dress him down for using a bad word? Heck no. I tell him where I bought the shoes. This actually happened a few days ago. And they are pretty cool shoes. There is only ONE human race here. The HUMAN race. This is the danged 21st century. We should and can be beyond this. The first thing I think when I meet a new person is “wow, a new person, I wonder what we can share”. The second thing is “how can I help them.” I usually can’t, but that is how I am wired. Y’all probably think I am freaking crazy. But, honestly, I love humans. I am a human, after all. Thanks for reading. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/33 "2012-01-19T03:06:20Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > OK…I’ll play along, why isn’t a Catholic slur hate speech then? Well, for one thing, the phrase is so outdated that the only people whom I have heard use it in the last 40 years have been Catholics making fun of the slur, [for example](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4916786#post4916786). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/34 "2012-01-19T10:33:54Z")
“Papists” is still cool, though, right? ---
**Author:** ![Windsong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Windsong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windsong)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/35 "2012-01-19T17:11:13Z")
Well, yeah, yer maybe just a bit crazy, but if you were otherwise, you’d be boring. > [@Gagundathar](#): > > Look, I am a white guy. About as white as it gets (except perhaps that 1/16th part Cherokee… but let’s not get into that). > I don’t care if you call me a ‘honkie’ or a ‘cracker’, or gosh… what other things … I forget > > let me check… > [A wonderful compendium of racial slurs](http://gyral.blackshell.com/names.html) > WAIT is ‘redneck’ really a racial pejorative? > Ahabs? > Boguns? > Buleh? > Ditchpig? > > These are nonsensical. > And, I’ll bet you none of you have ever heard these used as pejorative terms used for white people. > > Words have meaning. Words have power. It is the primary way we interact with each other. > But, when we assign negative values to certain words, we do damage to those we apply them to. > This happens because we are attempting to harm them with the words. > It isn’t the word; it is instead the wielder of the word. > > So, the word ‘mackerel snapper’ if used meanly means JUST as much as when someone calls someone else ‘nigger’. > It is not as if some magic spell was cast with the use of the word. > It matters to the person it is said to. > > Think, y’all. I am a middle-aged white guy. > I am walking down the street and a young black kid (8-9-10) says “Hey, nigger, love those shoes”. > Do I dress him down for using a bad word? > Heck no. > I tell him where I bought the shoes. > > This actually happened a few days ago. > > And they are pretty cool shoes. > There is only ONE human race here. > > The HUMAN race. > > This is the danged 21st century. > We should and can be beyond this. > > The first thing I think when I meet a new person is “wow, a new person, I wonder what we can share”. > > The second thing is “how can I help them.” > I usually can’t, but that is how I am wired. > > Y’all probably think I am freaking crazy. > But, honestly, I love humans. I am a human, after all. > > Thanks for reading. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/36 "2012-01-19T17:35:06Z")
I’m reading an old (1939) Nero Wolfe mystery, “Some Buried Caesar” (the one in which Archie meets Lily Rowan), and he tells her a joke that begins “What’s the difference between a Catholic and a river that runs uphill?”. We never get the punch line, and I’ve just gotta know. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/37 "2012-01-19T17:39:35Z")
Here I was thinking it had something to do with Lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/38 "2012-01-19T17:39:58Z")
[There apparently isn’t any punch line.](http://www.nerowolfe.org/htm/stout/articles.htm) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/39 "2012-01-20T13:21:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What definition of “hate speech” are you operating under? None… I don’t care who hates me, people like me, George Bush or Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783/40 "2012-01-20T13:44:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [There apparently isn’t any punch line.](http://www.nerowolfe.org/htm/stout/articles.htm) Thank you for clearing that up. Now it won’t keep me awake at night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mackerel-snapper-hate-speech/609783.md?page=3)