# Is mainstream America mostly conservative? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901 "2008-09-10T04:52:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/1 "2008-09-10T04:52:06Z")
Today I was talking with a “conservative” friend of mine about the election. During which he stated that “mainstream America is mostly conservative” and that “liberal ideas miss the mark with most people”. Now this obviously hasn’t been the first time I’d heard this remark (in fact I heard it again tonight from a pundit on one of the cable news channels), but it was the first time I thought it through. I pointed out to him that liberal ideas of women’s suffarage, civil rights, social safety nets (welfare, medicare, unemployment, and social security), and government funded education are ideas that most Americans would agree with. I am not saying that these are exclusivly liberal ideas, but that these are a few of the cornerstones that modern liberalism was built upon. The only problem is my friend sees liberal ideas only as Tax! Tax! Tax! Spend! Spend! Spend! , so my argument only went as far as my patience. Would you consider that most Americans are conservative or liberal? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/2 "2008-09-10T08:43:48Z")
Most Americans are _apolitical._ Some are single-issue voters. And of course, there’s a difference between cultural conservatism & political conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/3 "2008-09-10T10:20:34Z")
Apparently, heartland America, despite being relatively low population density, is the only real America, and they’re the only real Americas. If you’re from the coast, you’re not as real an American as they are. But if you’re from the South, you’re almost as good! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/4 "2008-09-10T11:13:44Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > Today I was talking with a “conservative” friend of mine about the election. During which he stated that “mainstream America is mostly conservative” and that “liberal ideas miss the mark with most people”. Now this obviously hasn’t been the first time I’d heard this remark (in fact I heard it again tonight from a pundit on one of the cable news channels), but it was the first time I thought it through. > > I pointed out to him that liberal ideas of women’s suffarage, civil rights, social safety nets (welfare, medicare, unemployment, and social security), and government funded education are ideas that most Americans would agree with. I am not saying that these are exclusivly liberal ideas, but that these are a few of the cornerstones that modern liberalism was built upon. The only problem is my friend sees liberal ideas only as Tax! Tax! Tax! Spend! Spend! Spend! , so my argument only went as far as my patience. > > Would you consider that most Americans are conservative or liberal? If one would judge by the Gore\_Bush election year I would say no. Gore got more votes than Bush. Some people are fiscal conservatives but social liberals or moderates. The Social Conservarives are driven more by their religion than others. They are driven by(the ones who email me) the worry that their Christianity is being taken away, although they do not seem to mind if someone else’s religion is held to their beliefs. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/5 "2008-09-10T12:37:27Z")
Depends on how you mean conservative… Most people I know to some extent believe as ideals- in God & respect religion, that marital fidelity is important and that cheating and divorce are undesirable, that mental clarity is good & overindulgence in anything like booze or drugs should be minimized, that kids are better off when raised by a mother & a father, that homosexuality is at best a little weird, that people should work for what they get to the extent that they are able, that immigration should be decently regulated and that people who come here should respect the law, speak the common language and not expect public services, that military service is honorable, that success and wealth should not be penalized and that irresponsibility should not be subsidized, that national defense should be a government priority, being tough on incorrigible or heinous criminals, that public schools should focus on the three R’s first and secondarily support the above values rather than challenging them… etc. Now, there are a lot of self-identified liberals who believe all the above but are more lenient about much of it. And I am sure that we can come up with a list of values & beliefs which are regarded as liberal which most Americans believe. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/6 "2008-09-10T13:25:23Z")
I would describe myself as conservative liberal. I have no use for religion but I respect others right to worship as they please but have no respect for those who want to force their religious viewpoints on the rest of by legislation. I believe that marital fidelity is easier in the long run and divorce is expensive. I believe that mental clarity is good there’s less around than seems right. I believe that kids are not always better off when raised by a mother & a father. I believe that homosexuality is one of life anomalies but is not a choice and those who are so, are deserving of respect and the same rights as anyone else. I believe that people should work for what they get to the extent that they are able, that immigration should be fairly regulated and that people who come here should respect the law. What language they speak is their business. Some services should be available to anyone living and working in America. The military service is profession like any other and not more honorable than any other. People who die digging ditches for public service projects don’t get flag draped coffins do they? Those who have more should give more. Irresponsibility should not be subsidized - You mean like Bear Sterns? Enron? Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac? National defense should be a government function. Not a political tool. Justice needs to be applied more equally. That public schools should focus on the three R’s first and secondarily support the above values rather than challenging them. I don’t know what the second part of that means. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/7 "2008-09-10T13:25:26Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Now, there are a lot of self-identified liberals who believe all the above but are more lenient about much of it. And I am sure that we can come up with a list of values & beliefs which are regarded as liberal which most Americans believe. Nothing you’ve listed there could be considered “conservative” or “liberal”. That’s a good list of ideals for anybody, regardless of their political stripe. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/8 "2008-09-10T13:30:09Z")
Mainstream America is the salt of the earth, the common clay, you know … the sort of people who voted for Bush in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/9 "2008-09-10T13:38:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Would you consider that most Americans are conservative or liberal? Centrists actually. I think most American’s are neither conservative or liberal, but instead straddle the fence, being conservative on some issues and liberal on others. It’s the loopy ones at the extremes for which it’s an all or nothing proposition. The degree (or direction) most American’s sway one way or the other is going to vary…but I think it’s safe to say the majority are fiscally neutral, and socially liberal and/or conservative depending on the issue being discussed. Or, think of it this way…if it’s a nearly unanimous position on the 'dope it probably doesn’t represent what ‘most Americans’ agree with. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/10 "2008-09-10T14:00:40Z")
Check out the [Pew Research Center Political Typology.](http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=949) Liberal, or at any rate Democrat-leaning groups (Liberals, Conservative Democrats, and Disadvantaged Democrats) make up 40% of the total population. Republican-leaning groups (Enterprisers, Social Conservatives, Pro-Government Conservatives) make up 29%. The remaining groups (Upbeats, Disaffecteds, Bystanders) lean independent if they vote at all. So, no, mainstream America is probably not mostly conservative. In fact, the American people are moving left, slowly but steadily, and that’s not a momentary fashion or swing of the pendulum, it’s due to deep cultural, generational and demographic changes. See last year’s Pew Research Center for the People and the Press study, [“Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007,”](http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312) which showed definite changes in Americans’ political views, discussed [here:](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070709/perlstein) > [@](#): > > Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007, a massive twenty-year roundup of public opinion from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, tells the story. Is it the responsibility of government to care for those who can’t take care of themselves? In 1994, the year conservative Republicans captured Congress, 57 percent of those polled thought so. Now, says Pew, it’s 69 percent. (Even 58 percent of Republicans agree. Would that some of them were in Congress.) The proportion of Americans who believe government should guarantee every citizen enough to eat and a place to sleep is 69 percent, too–the highest since 1991. Even 69 percent of self-identified Republicans–and 75 percent of small-business owners!–favor raising the minimum wage by more than $2. > > The Pew study was not just asking about do-good, something-for-nothing abstractions. It asked about trade-offs. A majority, 54 percent, think “government should help the needy even if it means greater debt” (it was only 41 percent in 1994). Two-thirds want the government to guarantee health insurance for all citizens. Even among those who otherwise say they would prefer a smaller government, it’s 57 percent–the same as the percentage of Americans making more than $75,000 a year who believe “labor unions are necessary to protect the working person.” > > It’s not just Pew. In the authoritative National Election Studies (NES) survey, more than twice as many Americans want “government to provide many more services even if it means an increase in spending” as want fewer services “in order to reduce spending.” According to Gallup, a majority say they generally side with labor in disputes and only 34 percent with companies; 53 percent think unions help the economy and only 36 percent think they hurt. A 2005 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 53 percent of Americans thought the Bush tax cuts were “not worth it because they have increased the deficit and caused cuts in government programs.” CNN/Opinion Research Corp. found that only 25 percent want to see Roe v. Wade overturned; NPR/Kaiser Family Foundation/Harvard found the public rejecting government-funded abstinence-only sex education in favor of “more comprehensive sex education programs that include information on how to obtain and use condoms and other contraceptives” by 67 percent to 30 percent. Public Agenda/Foreign Affairs discovered that 67 percent of Americans favor “diplomatic and economic efforts over military efforts in fighting terrorism.” And [_The Emerging Democratic Majority,_](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0323301-0796122?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182621390&sr=1-1) John Judis and Ruy Teixeira: > [@](#): > > In 1969 a prescient Kevin Phillips published The Emerging Republican Majority, predicting the rise of the conservative Republican movement. Now Judis, a senior editor at the New Republic, and Teixeira, a fellow at the Century Foundation and author of The Disappearing American Voter, argue that, if current demographic and political trends continue, a new realignment of political power is inevitable, this time sweeping Democrats to power. In support of their thesis they argue that the electorate is becoming increasingly diverse, with growing Asian, Hispanic and African-American populations-all groups that tend to vote Democratic. On the other hand, the number of white Americans, the voting population most likely to favor Republicans, remains static. Further, according to the authors, America’s transition from an industrial to a postindustrial economy is also producing voters who trend strongly Democratic. Judis and Teixeira coin the word “ideopolis” for the geographic areas where the postindustrial economy thrives. They also argue that other changes, specifically the growing educated professional class and the continuing “gender gap,” will benefit Democrats, whose political ideology is more consonant with the needs and beliefs of women and professionals. Judis and Teixeira predict that all these elements will converge by 2008, at the latest, when a new Democratic majority will emerge. Wisely, they warn that their predictions are just that, and that events might overtake the trends. But their warning will bring little comfort to Republicans, who will find their well-supported thesis disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/11 "2008-09-10T14:19:54Z")
IMO, Mainstream America (whatever that means…it depends who’s swimming and in what river(s)) these days has some liberal values and some conservative values, but is more and more _leaning_ to the right. A lot of it has to do with the changing meaning of community. Once it meant “people around here” - a civic idea of values that allowed for some give and take for the benefit of all. This is a broadly liberal tradition, based on needs and common goods. Now community often means “people around me” or “people like me” - a values-based idea of civics, where values exist for _themselves_ as much as for the common good. This is a broadly conservative tradition, based on standards and ideals. One result is that libs and cons agree on many _broad, surface_ issues, but once you get below the surface - to the “whys” and “hows” - you find they interpret them in strikingly different ways. [Rockridge Nation](http://www.rockridgenation.org/blog/archive/2007/05/14/2007/05/07/thinking-points-discussion-of-chapter-6-part-1-our-american-values.html), a blog started by George Lakoff (the father of political [“framing”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences))), has some telling analysis of just how differently we see the same issues. Example: **Broad issue:** We should be tough on incorrigible or heinous criminals… Conservative “frame”: …by making prison sentences as long as possible because we need them kept out of society, but also as unpleasant as possible because moral values demand we punish and not coddle criminals. Liberal “frame”: …by making sure sentences fit the crimes because we need the worst put away the longest, but also working toward rehabilitation and humane treatment because moral values demand we not harden criminals or breed more of them. Thanks to **FriarTed** for the broad issue. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/12 "2008-09-10T14:28:34Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > A lot of it has to do with the changing meaning of community. Once it meant “people around here” - a civic idea of values that allowed for some give and take for the benefit of all. This is a broadly liberal tradition, based on needs and common goods. I think many conservatives would claim that as a **conservative** tradition – and associate the other attitude you describe with liberal “identity politics.” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/13 "2008-09-10T14:38:04Z")
Those are, of course, archetypes. Actual mileage may vary - especially when you bring in the group’s self-image vs. the other group’s perception, and of course the limitless possibility for confusing identity with community. No one’s immune to any of that. Lakoff et al assumed a “strict” archetype for conservatives and a “nurturant” one for liberals, which does, more or less, add up to “values before people” for cons and “people before values” for libs. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/14 "2008-09-10T14:43:08Z")
I consider myself a moderate, but I’m sure a country that elects evolution denying conservative politicians considers me left leaning. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/15 "2008-09-10T15:53:48Z")
It really depends on what issues we focus on to define “liberal” and “conservative” – economic, or social. An individual’s position on the one is not determinative of his/her position on the other. From a new article, [“The Newer Deal: The Path to a Democratic Supermajority,”](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/newer_deal_path_democratic_supermajority_7753) by Michael Lind: > [@](#): > > Franklin Roosevelt’s Democratic majority, despite defections by Southern segregationists, wobbled on until 1968, 23 years after his death. FDR was able to assemble his coalition only because social issues did not divide his voters. Nobody ever asked FDR or Harry Truman or John F. Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson their views on contraception, or abortion, or censorship. Not only were those issues not central to the message of the New Deal Democrats, they were not even national issues. Before the Supreme Court federalized them, they were fought out in state legislatures and city councils by the very same people who came together on Election Day to send Democrats to Congress and the White House. FDR’s followers disagreed about Prohibition, but they agreed about the New Deal. > > In fact, the majority of Americans, including many social conservatives, never ceased to support New Deal policies, which from Social Security and Medicare to the G.I. Bill have remained popular with the public throughout the entire Nixon-to-Bush era. Consider the results of a June 17, 2008, Rockefeller Foundation/Time poll. When “favor strongly” and “favor somewhat” are combined, one gets the following percentages for policies favored by overwhelming majorities: increase the minimum wage to keep up with the cost of living (88 percent); increase government spending on things like public-works projects to create jobs (86 percent); put stricter limits on pollution we put into the atmosphere (85 percent); limit rate increases on adjustable rate mortgages (82 percent); provide quality healthcare to all, regardless of ability to pay (81 percent); impose higher tax incentives for alternative energy (81 percent); provide government-funded childcare to all parents so they can work (77 percent); provide more paid maternity/dependent care leave (76 percent); make it less profitable for companies to outsource jobs to foreign countries (76 percent); expand unemployment benefits (76 percent). > > Note that almost all of the policy proposals that excite the American public are exactly the sort of old-fashioned, “paleoliberal” spending programs or systems of government regulation that are supposed to be obsolete in this era of privatization, deregulation and free-market globalization, according to neoliberals and libertarians. Bill Clinton to the contrary, the public clearly does not think that “the era of big government is over.” Nor does the public show any interest in the laundry lists of teeny-weeny tax credits for this and that that neoliberals love to propose, to appear compassionate without spending real money. The public wants the middle-class welfare state to be rounded out by a few major additions – chiefly, healthcare and childcare – and the public also wants the government to grow the economy by investing in public works and favoring companies that locate their production facilities inside the U.S. There, in a sentence, is a program for a neo-Rooseveltian party that could effect an epochal realignment in American politics. > > A Newer Deal party that ran on this economic agenda could attract Southern Baptist creationists as well as Marin County agnostics. I hear the riposte already: “I’d rather move to Canada than share the Democratic Party with _those_ people!” But across the country there are lots of potential Democratic congressional and senatorial candidates who would like to move to Washington – and might be able to, if social conservatives were welcomed to a big-tent party defined almost exclusively by economic liberalism. [I argued, here, for exactly the same thing three years ago, BTW.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312933) > [@](#): > > What’s the alternative? The Cato Institute’s Brink Lindsey has mused about a “liberaltarian” coalition uniting social-issue liberals with free-market anti-statists. Down with drug and sodomy laws – and welfare and Social Security, too! The problem with this as a Democratic strategy is that Mike Huckabee conservatives who might be attracted to a Newer Deal greatly outnumber Ron Paul libertarians in the electorate, if not on college campuses and in editorial offices. > > Anyway, the Democrats have already tried “liberaltarianism.” That’s what was promoted by Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, the only two presidents elected by the McGovern Party. Both Carter and Clinton ran as New Deal-style liberal populists, then, once in office, reneged on their campaign rhetoric and promoted a mix of economic conservatism – deregulation, balanced budgets – and social liberalism. Had Clinton been interested in restoring the Roosevelt coalition, he would have veered left on economics and right on cultural issues. Instead, under the influence of Robert Rubin, Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, which dismantled many firewalls between investment banks, securities firms and commercial banks that the New Deal Congress had put in place, inadvertently contributing to the economic disaster we are now experiencing. Instead of opposing race-based affirmative action in favor of universal programs open to economically disadvantaged whites, Clinton said he would “mend it, not end it” and then forgot even to mend it. The 1990s neoliberal synthesis of Rubinomics and racial preferences, a version of “liberaltarianism,” is popular in corporate boardrooms and newspaper editorial offices – but deeply unpopular in Main Street America. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/16 "2008-09-10T15:59:19Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Centrists actually. I think most American’s are neither conservative or liberal, but instead straddle the fence, being conservative on some issues and liberal on others. By American standards, or world standards? Where I’m standing, the average American is more of a Right Winger than David Beckham. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/17 "2008-09-10T16:01:44Z")
It really depends on what issues we focus on to define “liberal” and “conservative” – economic, or social. An individual’s position on the one is not determinative of his/her position on the other. From a new article, [“The Newer Deal: The Path to a Democratic Supermajority,”](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/newer_deal_path_democratic_supermajority_7753) by Michael Lind: > [@](#): > > Franklin Roosevelt’s Democratic majority, despite defections by Southern segregationists, wobbled on until 1968, 23 years after his death. FDR was able to assemble his coalition only because social issues did not divide his voters. Nobody ever asked FDR or Harry Truman or John F. Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson their views on contraception, or abortion, or censorship. Not only were those issues not central to the message of the New Deal Democrats, they were not even national issues. Before the Supreme Court federalized them, they were fought out in state legislatures and city councils by the very same people who came together on Election Day to send Democrats to Congress and the White House. FDR’s followers disagreed about Prohibition, but they agreed about the New Deal. > > In fact, the majority of Americans, including many social conservatives, never ceased to support New Deal policies, which from Social Security and Medicare to the G.I. Bill have remained popular with the public throughout the entire Nixon-to-Bush era. Consider the results of a June 17, 2008, Rockefeller Foundation/Time poll. When “favor strongly” and “favor somewhat” are combined, one gets the following percentages for policies favored by overwhelming majorities: increase the minimum wage to keep up with the cost of living (88 percent); increase government spending on things like public-works projects to create jobs (86 percent); put stricter limits on pollution we put into the atmosphere (85 percent); limit rate increases on adjustable rate mortgages (82 percent); provide quality healthcare to all, regardless of ability to pay (81 percent); impose higher tax incentives for alternative energy (81 percent); provide government-funded childcare to all parents so they can work (77 percent); provide more paid maternity/dependent care leave (76 percent); make it less profitable for companies to outsource jobs to foreign countries (76 percent); expand unemployment benefits (76 percent). > > Note that almost all of the policy proposals that excite the American public are exactly the sort of old-fashioned, “paleoliberal” spending programs or systems of government regulation that are supposed to be obsolete in this era of privatization, deregulation and free-market globalization, according to neoliberals and libertarians. Bill Clinton to the contrary, the public clearly does not think that “the era of big government is over.” Nor does the public show any interest in the laundry lists of teeny-weeny tax credits for this and that that neoliberals love to propose, to appear compassionate without spending real money. The public wants the middle-class welfare state to be rounded out by a few major additions – chiefly, healthcare and childcare – and the public also wants the government to grow the economy by investing in public works and favoring companies that locate their production facilities inside the U.S. There, in a sentence, is a program for a neo-Rooseveltian party that could effect an epochal realignment in American politics. > > A Newer Deal party that ran on this economic agenda could attract Southern Baptist creationists as well as Marin County agnostics. I hear the riposte already: “I’d rather move to Canada than share the Democratic Party with _those_ people!” But across the country there are lots of potential Democratic congressional and senatorial candidates who would like to move to Washington – and might be able to, if social conservatives were welcomed to a big-tent party defined almost exclusively by economic liberalism. [I argued, here, for exactly the same thing three years ago, BTW.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312933) > [@](#): > > What’s the alternative? The Cato Institute’s Brink Lindsey has mused about a “liberaltarian” coalition uniting social-issue liberals with free-market anti-statists. Down with drug and sodomy laws – and welfare and Social Security, too! The problem with this as a Democratic strategy is that Mike Huckabee conservatives who might be attracted to a Newer Deal greatly outnumber Ron Paul libertarians in the electorate, if not on college campuses and in editorial offices. > > Anyway, the Democrats have already tried “liberaltarianism.” That’s what was promoted by Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, the only two presidents elected by the McGovern Party. Both Carter and Clinton ran as New Deal-style liberal populists, then, once in office, reneged on their campaign rhetoric and promoted a mix of economic conservatism – deregulation, balanced budgets – and social liberalism. Had Clinton been interested in restoring the Roosevelt coalition, he would have veered left on economics and right on cultural issues. Instead, under the influence of Robert Rubin, Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, which dismantled many firewalls between investment banks, securities firms and commercial banks that the New Deal Congress had put in place, inadvertently contributing to the economic disaster we are now experiencing. Instead of opposing race-based affirmative action in favor of universal programs open to economically disadvantaged whites, Clinton said he would “mend it, not end it” and then forgot even to mend it. The 1990s neoliberal synthesis of Rubinomics and racial preferences, a version of “liberaltarianism,” is popular in corporate boardrooms and newspaper editorial offices – but deeply unpopular in Main Street America. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/18 "2008-09-10T16:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] By American standards, or world standards? [/QUOTE] Well, ‘world standards’ are a bit, um, fuzzy, since it would depend on where in The World™ you are talking about. So, obviously I meant local standards (in this case the US). On a related issue, do you generally use US standards (or ‘the worlds’) when talking about your own political system? Where on the continuity bar do you stack up again The World™? Left? Right? Center? -XT ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/19 "2008-09-10T16:37:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > On a related issue, do you generally use US standards (or ‘the worlds’) when talking about your own political system? Where on the continuity bar do you stack up again The World™? Left? Right? Center? > > -XT Obviously each nation uses its own standards for where on the political chart one is. I am Centrist by nature in my country but I’m sure I’d be labeled a liberal pinko in the States. Now the average American is not as far right as say The average Saudi but in a world view I’d say the US is generally leans more conservative on a world scale, especially on social issues. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901/20 "2008-09-10T16:55:06Z")
[QUOTE=kingpengvin] Obviously each nation uses its own standards for where on the political chart one is. I am Centrist by nature in my country but I’m sure I’d be labeled a liberal pinko in the States. Now the average American is not as far right as say The average Saudi but in a world view I’d say the US is generally leans more conservative on a world scale, especially on social issues. [/QUOTE] I agree with you that people use their own yardstick to determine where their society is (only when the US does it somehow it’s a bad thing). I disagree with you that the US leans more conservative ‘on a world scale, espeically on social issues’. This is only the case if you equate ‘on a world scale’ to Europe/Western Nations. If we look at ALL of the worlds governments I’d say the US is probably in the middle of the pack on the whole social issues thingy. It’s only if we look at Europe (Western Europe mostly) and similar nations that the US looks disproportionately ‘conservative’. If we equate ‘on a world scale’ to, the Middle East, then the US looks liberal. Same if we compare it to countries like China and Russia (depending on WHAT we are comparing). Hell, depending on what we are comparing the US looks more liberal even than some Western countries on SOME issues. I don’t believe there is a commonly accepted meter stick out there that is used to determine where a country ‘should’ be in the greater scheme of things. What I see is a lot of countries try and compare the US to some theoretical meter stick composed of selected bits mostly from Western Europe and a few other countries…with emphasis on ‘selected bits’ because if we go country to country in that large block called Western Nations there is a lot of variance between issues. What it boils down to is that a lot of Western Nations have things like Universal Health Care and the US doesn’t…so, we are more ‘conservative’ ‘socially’. There are a lot of other things involved (religion, for instance) that make us different than the Western Nations meter stick of course. And using Europe as the meter stick then sure…the US is more conservative over all (both socially AND economically). But on a ‘world scale’? Not buying that. -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mainstream-america-mostly-conservative/462901.md?page=2)