# Is Male Circumcision Just as Bad as Female Genital Mutilation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238 "2017-04-25T19:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/1 "2017-04-25T19:14:52Z")
Some people are dying to talk about this. I’m not one of them, but what the hell, I’ll get the ball rolling. I’m certainly curious to hear some intelligent views on this subject. [Inspired by this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5) In the U.S., it’s pretty much universally agreed upon that female genital mutilation is a terrible evil, but the circumcision of male infants is incredibly common. While it’s clear that the social and cultural factors contributing to both rituals are dramatically different, is outrage about female genital mutilation inherently hypocritical, if we then turn around and defend male circumcision? Are the touted health benefits of male circumcision worth the price? What exactly \*is \*that price? If most adult men are okay with being circumcised, does that make it acceptable? Thanks for your reasoned and thoughtful responses. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/2 "2017-04-25T19:22:20Z")
We have instances of sexually active men who have had circumcision done as an adult. They still have plenty of nerves left to feel pleasure. FGM is liking cutting a penis off. - No tightly packed bundle of nerves to feel pleasure. In other words, a totally different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/3 "2017-04-25T19:27:24Z")
As I said in the other thread, FGM type 1a is anatomically the same as “male circumcision”. Both involve the removal of the prepuce. Now, FGM type 1b (removal of the glans clitoris), type 2 (removal of the labia minora) or type 3 (infibulation) cannot be compared to the male circumcision performed in the USA, or among muslim or jewish communities in Western Europe. But if FGM type 1a is an abomination, it’s impossible to defend “circumcision” of healthy infant boys. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/4 "2017-04-25T19:49:32Z")
Totally different. Male circumcision removes some skin with comparatively little effect, FGM removes an entire sexual nerve receptor bundle. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/5 "2017-04-25T20:11:35Z")
There seems to be 4 types of FGM. Perhaps explaining what you mean by FGM would help the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/6 "2017-04-25T20:19:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There seems to be 4 types of FGM. Perhaps explaining what you mean by FGM would help the conversation. Since the news article in question is describing Type 1a, let’s go with that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/7 "2017-04-25T20:20:21Z")
Removing part or all of visible genital tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/8 "2017-04-25T20:25:51Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Since the news article in question is describing Type 1a, let’s go with that. According to [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK368486/box/ch1.box1), 1a seems to be analogous to male circumcision. Is that not true? ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/9 "2017-04-25T20:27:43Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Since the news article in question is describing Type 1a, let’s go with that. Can you link to the news article? I haven’t seen any that actually says what was surgically removed. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Removing part or all of visible genital tissue. “part or all of” That is very broad and would also cover your typical male circumcision. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/10 "2017-04-25T20:33:16Z")
[This is the most I can give you](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/21/second-detroit-doctor-arrested-for-female-genital-mutilation.html) regarding the description of what happened to the girls. > [@](#): > > The first girl later told investigators she and another girl were brought to Detroit for a “special” girls’ trip and that they had to go to the doctors because their “tummies hurt.” The second girl told investigators she “got a shot” on her upper right thigh, and was in so much pain after the procedure that she could hardly walk. > > … > > But doctors observed “some scar tissue and smeall healing lacerations” on one of the two seven-year-old girls’ genitals, and a “small incision” and “small tear” on the other girl’s, according to the criminal complaints against Nagarwala and the Attar couple. I don’t know anything about female genital mutilation, but based on the description I’m guessing some part of the clitoris was removed (1a.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/11 "2017-04-25T20:34:30Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > Can you link to the news article? I haven’t seen any that actually says what was surgically removed. > > “part or all of” > > That is very broad and would also cover your typical male circumcision. :eek: A typical male circumcision can involve the removal of the entire penis?? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/12 "2017-04-25T20:35:59Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > As I said in the other thread, FGM type 1a is anatomically the same as “male circumcision”. Both involve the removal of the prepuce. > > Now, FGM type 1b (removal of the glans clitoris), type 2 (removal of the labia minora) or type 3 (infibulation) cannot be compared to the male circumcision performed in the USA, or among muslim or jewish communities in Western Europe. But if FGM type 1a is an abomination, it’s impossible to defend “circumcision” of healthy infant boys. You’re right. They should definitely amend the federal FGM laws to allow type 1a. It’s no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Schoggi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Schoggi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schoggi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/13 "2017-04-25T20:36:17Z")
This topic is approached from the wrong angle in countries that practice male genital cutting, such as the OP did. The fact that people who’ve something done to them, in this case a part of their genitals cut off, manage to justify an unnecessary procedure must not be mistaken with them being “okay” with it. Ask any european whether they’d be okay being circumcised and then go from there, because, believe it or not, these women being FGM’d in africa think they’re being saved by having their clitoris removed. It doesn’t matter what somebody who has had this procedure done on him thinks. That’s basic psychology, and it’s faulty logic. The question should be “Should we remove a part of a normal penis in a child?” and the answer can only be no. You’d think every european and chinese and japanese boy is full of terrible infections and in pain and suffering from these threads. It’s very simple: You operate on a body part if it’s defective in some way (infection or phimosis). Not before, not prophylactically. The “benefits” are ridiculous in that they concern STDs which can be prevented, as in any country with sane pediatricians, with safe sex practices which should be used anyway because a “lesser risk of getting HIV” doesn’t prevent anybody from still getting HIV, OR herpes, OR hepatitis, OR gonorrhea, or syphilis. Or they concern penile cancer which, again, is a joke of a justification, because it hardly ever occurs and because you don’t amputate a girl’s breasts because her mother had breast cancer. What remains? “Hygiene”? I.e. water and soap? What’s lost? A part of an infant’s genitalia, his bodily integrity infringed upon, his body visibly altered; the protective function of the foreskin lost, the glans slowly keratinizing, both glans and foreskin sensitivity lost, healthy, normal masturbation impaired due to the lack of natural lube, i.e. the foreskin. I’ve read enough german and american forums to know that europeans use lube in an exotic kind of way at the most, not for normal masturbation. We also hardly get “chafing”, search any american boards and they’re full of men complaining of that. No, I think circumcised men don’t realize just how an intact penis works and that “just a bit of skin” does actually have a function. The idea of this outrage is not to make FGM seem more harmless than it is but to forcefully bind together these topics, not just because they are essentially the same problematic, but because any justification for male genital cutting or ignoring of it only leads to an unequal, exclusive fight against FGM and not circumcision. By mentioning them in the same go, we can actually fight both. If people are ignorant enough to think an anti-vaxxer, a 9/11 hoaxer and me, brace yourself, an MRA fighting unnecessary infant genital cutting are the same, it’s really their own psyche they need to examine. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/14 "2017-04-25T20:45:01Z")
BTW, Schoggi, that “natural lube” is why most women prefer cut men. I’ve been told that some guys end up just having sex with their foreskin and the woman doesn’t feel as much movement down there. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/15 "2017-04-25T20:49:08Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > [This is the most I can give you](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/21/second-detroit-doctor-arrested-for-female-genital-mutilation.html) regarding the description of what happened to the girls. There’s this part in your article: > [@](#): > > Shannon Smith said in federal court in Michigan that her client removed the girls’ genital membrane as part of a custom practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, a small sect of Indian Muslims of which Nagarwala is a part, the Detroit Free-Press reported. That’s Type 1a FGM. > [@](#): > > I don’t know anything about female genital mutilation, but based on the description I’m guessing some part of the clitoris was removed (1a.) No, 1A is the partial or total removal of the clitoral hood, which is separate from the clitoris. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/16 "2017-04-25T20:54:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > :eek: > A typical male circumcision can involve the removal of the entire penis?? No, but definitely _part of it_. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/17 "2017-04-25T20:54:40Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > “part or all of” > > That is very broad and would also cover your typical male circumcision. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > :eek: > A typical male circumcision can involve the removal of the entire penis?? Procedures that remove part **or** all of visible genital tissue include male circumcision. ---
**Author:** ![Schoggi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Schoggi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schoggi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/18 "2017-04-25T21:03:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > BTW, Schoggi, that “natural lube” is why most women prefer cut men. I’ve been told that some guys end up just having sex with their foreskin and the woman doesn’t feel as much movement down there. Okay, another frequent argument: Women prefer it. Should I take “Women prefer having sex with them” as an argument in favour of “Let’s cut this baby’s penis”? Why does it matter what women want? We’re not talking about adult voluntary circumcision and we sure don’t want to justify genital cutting based on sexual preferences of the intact party, do we? And if, yes I’m going there, some african men prefer FGM’d women, does that make it okay? If men preferred cut women so they’d get more out of the sex they have with them? Realize how disgusting that sounds once we switch the sexes? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/19 "2017-04-25T21:13:10Z")
> [@Schoggi](#): > > Okay, another frequent argument: Women prefer it. > > Should I take “Women prefer having sex with them” as an argument in favour of “Let’s cut this baby’s penis”? Why does it matter what women want? What planet do you live on? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/20 "2017-04-25T21:16:01Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Some people are dying to talk about this. Yeah, we’ve had long and heated threads about circumcision in the past. > [@](#): > > While it’s clear that the social and cultural factors contributing to both rituals are dramatically different, is outrage about female genital mutilation inherently hypocritical, if we then turn around and defend male circumcision? No. > [@](#): > > Are the touted health benefits of male circumcision worth the price? What exactly \*is \*that price? If most adult men are okay with being circumcised, does that make it acceptable? Religious and cultural norms aside, the claims (for which, IIUC, there is at least some evidence, though I don’t know how conclusive or widely accepted) are that, on the plus side, it makes it easier to keep the penis clean and reduces the risk of STDs, and on the minus side, it reduces sensation, making sex less pleasurable (though it doesn’t prevent men from having a normal, healthy sex life). And there are people who claim to find circumcized penises more aesthetically appealing than uncircumcized ones, or vice versa. For myself, it’s a done deal, and I don’t think there’s any point in worrying about it since I don’t foresee being in a position to make the decision about anyone else’s circumcision. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238.md?page=2)