# Is Male Circumcision Just as Bad as Female Genital Mutilation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238 "2017-04-25T19:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/41 "2017-04-26T00:23:11Z")
The fact is, there are actual studied medical benefits to male circumcision and circumcision has the approval of multiple medical bodies based on those benefits. Even if you want to insist that they’re not worth it, etc the fact remains that male (esp. neonatal) circumcision has medical benefits that FGM does not share. So it is impossible to say that both are equal in any real sense. ---
**Author:** ![Schoggi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Schoggi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schoggi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/42 "2017-04-26T00:32:22Z")
Do people not read the whole threads here? STDs \> condoms Hygiene \> shower Phimosis \> surgery when indicated Do you propose cutting out babies’ appendices and breasts as well since both appendicitis and breast cancer do occur and can actually be fatal? Or do americans just like to make unnecessary operations and cut off random parts of their kids? It’s like you’re desperately searching for justifications. There are as many “benefits” to this as to prophylactic appendectomy. Why don’t you advertise for those? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/43 "2017-04-26T00:34:24Z")
> [@Schoggi](#): > > There are as many “benefits” to this as to prophylactic appendectomy. Why don’t you advertise for those? Find me the medical board recommendations for prophylactic appendectomy, please. ---
**Author:** ![Schoggi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Schoggi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schoggi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/44 "2017-04-26T00:44:39Z")
It’s surely that simple. Appendices aren’t needed so why not remove them at birth? At best they’re not needed, at worst they might randomly kill you. And why is the downside of having a piece of your penis being cut off never mentioned? Do we collectively think a person has no right to an intact, whole body? Americans started circumcision for no reasons and now you’re trying to come up with any you can find because the realization that you’re genitally cutting your children for nothing would just be too shocking for most people. edit: > **[Prophylactic Appendectomy during Laparoscopic Surgery for Other Conditions](https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crim/2014/292864/)** > > Acute appendicitis remains the most common surgical emergency. Laparoscopy has gained increasing favor as a method of both investigating right iliac fossa pain and treating the finding of appendicitis. A question arises: what to do with an apparent... > **[Prophylactic appendectomy: is it worth to be done? - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11396053/)** > > There are still many controversial issues in prophylactic appendectomy. In this retrospective study, we have appraised the reasons and results of prophylactic appendectomies performed between January 1997 and August 1999. Sixty four prophylactic... ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/45 "2017-04-26T00:53:14Z")
> [@Schoggi](#): > > It’s surely that simple. Appendices aren’t needed so why not remove them at birth? At best they’re not needed, at worst they might randomly kill you. I asked for medical board recommendations. You know, like multiple boards have approved male neonatal circumcision for medical benefits. Posting a study about prophylactic appendectomies while performing a hernia operation (because the conditions of the hernia could make an appendectomy more difficult in the future) misses the mark by about, oh, twenty or so miles. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/46 "2017-04-26T00:54:14Z")
I’m totally opposed to any form of genital mutilation, absent of a compelling medical reason. I’m circumcised, but my husband is not. After almost 30 years of comparative data, I’m still amazed at how much feeling he has, just in his foreskin, that I am lacking. He has a lot of it, extending well beyond the end of his penis. It’s like an additional organ; to remove it would have been criminal. And showering regularly prevents smegma. No need to rush to the bathroom before intimate moments. It doesn’t multiply like some sort of alien lifeform. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/47 "2017-04-26T00:56:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Even if you want to insist that they’re not worth it, etc the fact remains that male (esp. neonatal) circumcision has medical benefits that FGM does not share. Is that a fact? Have the benefits of FGM been studied? > [@Jophiel](#): > > Find me the medical board recommendations for prophylactic appendectomy, please. I think you’re missing the point. The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend male circumcision; but they do say the final decision should be left to the parent. One would naturally wonder if that would be the case if circumcision weren’t so accepted and wanted by society. Like Schoggi’s appendectomy or the following example regarding breast bud removal. > [@](#): > > Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys? > > Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby. > **[More Circumcision Myths You May Believe: Hygiene and STDs](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/more-circumcision-myths-you-may-believe-hygiene-and-stds)** > > There's a lot of hype about how circumcision is better for a man's health. But it is really? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/48 "2017-04-26T00:57:36Z")
You understand that removing an appendix is major surgery and a circumcision is an incredibly minor procedure. The downside of having your penis altered is not terribly difficult to understand or quantify. The downside of having your penis unaltered is also not difficult to understand or quantify. What is absolutely true is that a person who grows up one way or the other is generally satisfied with however they are and has no desire to change. My view is that male circumcision is pretty much a non issue one way or the other. It doesn’t have any significant impact positive or negative for anyone to get all riled up over. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/49 "2017-04-26T01:06:18Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The downside of having your penis altered is not terribly difficult to understand or quantify. That’s not true at all based on the various opinions I have read over the years on this board alone by seemingly bright and intelligent posters. Some, such as you, consider it a non-issue while someone has compared his husband’s uncut penis to his cut penis just two posts before you has found the differences to be significant. > [@](#): > > What is absolutely true is that a person who grows up one way or the other is generally satisfied with however they are and has no desire to change. Maybe. But probably due to ignorance. > [@](#): > > My view is that male circumcision is pretty much a non issue one way or the other. It doesn’t have any significant impact positive or negative for anyone to get all riled up over. See that post I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/50 "2017-04-26T01:08:22Z")
Yes it’s just as bad in that it involves a pointless procedure based on tradition. Both have their fans, and both have reasons THEY consider valid, as we saw in the link in the other thread. I guess what it all boils down to is what do they cool kids think? Because clearly on this forum the cool kids are a-okay with boys getting their penises altered for tradition’s sake but not for girls to have their clitoral hoods cut/altered/mutilated. The cool kids say the reason is because it’s ONLY for sexual reasons that girls are cut, and with boys it’s a matter of hygiene. In the US. Where we have access to clean water. It’s clearly very important that boys are circumcised and not at all mutilation, unlike when the same amount of tissue is removed from a clitoral hood. That’s what the cool kids say anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/51 "2017-04-26T01:10:16Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Is that a fact? Have the benefits of FGM been studied? When you can point to a study about them then we can talk. Saying “Well, maybe they do but no one knows!” isn’t evidence making the case for calling the two equal. > [@](#): > > The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend male circumcision [They say](https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/New-Benefits-Point-to-Greater-Benefits-of-Infant-Circumcision-But-Final-Say-is-Still-Up-to-parents-Says-AAP.aspx): > [@](#): > > New scientific evidence shows the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks of the procedure, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all newborn boys, according to an updated policy statement published by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). The revised policy, like the previous one from the AAP, says the decision whether or not to circumcise should be left to the parents in consultation with their child’s doctor. > […] > The AAP believes the health benefits are great enough that infant male circumcision should be covered by insurance, which would increase access to the procedure for families who choose it. The American Academy of Family Physicians, American Urological Association, and Center for Disease Control make similar statements. So find me a similar statement they make regarding FGM or prophylactic appendectomy and that they hold medical benefits that outweigh the risks. If you can’t, you should stop pretending that the procedures are of identical value, or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/52 "2017-04-26T01:11:51Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > The cool kids say the reason is because it’s ONLY for sexual reasons that girls are cut And without citation, which is something at least one of those cool kids are always asking others for. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/53 "2017-04-26T01:18:14Z")
> [@Schoggi](#): > > Psychological bias and sunk investment/Stockholm syndrome at work. That’s a lot of catchphrases. You must know a lot about this subject. Are you circumcised? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/54 "2017-04-26T01:22:12Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > When you can point to a study about them then we can talk. Saying “Well, maybe they do but no one knows!” isn’t evidence making the case for calling the two equal. Nice try. You made the claim that male circumcision has medical benefits that FGM does not share. My questions to you were therefore valid and the onus is on you, not me. > [@](#): > > [They say](https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/New-Benefits-Point-to-Greater-Benefits-of-Infant-Circumcision-But-Final-Say-is-Still-Up-to-parents-Says-AAP.aspx): They say exactly what I claimed: The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend male circumcision. > [@](#): > > So find me a similar statement they make regarding FGM or prophylactic appendectomy… You’re not, or pretending to not, understand the point. NO ONE is claiming “they” would make those recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/55 "2017-04-26T01:33:27Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And showering regularly prevents smegma. Understood. However, all things considered, I’d rather just not have smegma in my life at all. Or have to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/56 "2017-04-26T01:37:10Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Understood. However, all things considered, I’d rather just not have smegma in my life at all. Or have to worry about it. Are you straight? If so, does it freak you out that your partner may get some? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/57 "2017-04-26T01:39:40Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Are you straight? If so, does it freak you out that your partner may get some? If I stop and think about it, it does. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/58 "2017-04-26T01:40:24Z")
😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/59 "2017-04-26T01:44:50Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Nice try. You made the claim that male circumcision has medical benefits that FGM does not share. My questions to you were therefore valid and the onus is on you, not me. No, not really. I’m not the one trying to compare them and you’re asking me to prove a negative. If you think the two are identical, show it. > [@](#): > > They say exactly what I claimed: The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend male circumcision. Not routinely. They say it has measurable health benefits that outweigh the risk, endorse expanding coverage so more parents may take advantage of it and recommend that physicians discuss the advantages with parents so that the parents may make a final informed decision. You’ll notice that I can actually quote them instead of “claiming” what their stance is. You’re well aware that this is not the case with FGM despite your weird attempts to spin this otherwise. That’s not to endorse male circumcision in of itself but the question the OP poses is whether or not male circumcision is “just as bad” as FGM. Since male circumcision has measurable health benefits sufficient for multiple boards to acknowledge them and encourage expanded access to them, no one can seriously and sincerely claim that the answer to the OP is “yes”. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You’re not, or pretending to not, understand the point. NO ONE is claiming “they” would make those recommendations. The statement made was that prophylactic appendectomies have the same “benefits” as neonatal male circumcision. If this is factual, then it should be trivial to find endorsement of them even if it’s in the form of “The medical benefits outweigh the risks but the final decision should be in the hands of the parents”. ---
**Author:** ![Schoggi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Schoggi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schoggi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238/60 "2017-04-26T02:00:17Z")
Have you ever actually looked at “the benefits”? Have you read my now several posts describing how ridiculous they are? That they’re basically “less likely to get HIV without condoms” (stupid practice), “more hygienic without showers” and “can’t get phimosis - where we’d operate anyway”? And say, hypothetically, that there were no risks involved in surgery, would you prophylactically remove your daughter’s breasts or your son’s appendix? Why not? They can all get diseased and be grounds for surgery later on, right? Basically, does bodily integrity have no worth for “don’t care” opinion holders, is that just at the will of any potential surgery with “benefits”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-male-circumcision-just-as-bad-as-female-genital-mutilation/785238.md?page=4)