Why is the fact that marriages end an indication that they should never start. Just because I lose a job, I don’t decide never to get a job. My car breaking down doesn’t lead to me swearing of automobiles. The ending of a friendship doesn’t have me becoming a loner.
Maybe what is really needed is to stop teaching children that marriage is forever. Marriage is for as long as those involved decide that it’s an advantages status, just as a business partnership is.
I agree with those who have stated in other threads, that religious/social marriage should be seperated from a civil union. Let the government record peoples decision to become a joined legal and economic unit and govern the legal implications, while those who want to can add a layer of religious or social endorsement to it.
This is something we already do in the United States. The great states of New York, Texas and California do not care whether a couple is married by a Rabbi, a Roman Catholic Priest or a Justice of the Peace as each one of those marriages is equally valid under the law. All the government does these days is record your decision to become married. How secular or how religious you wish said marriage to be is your business and not the state’s.
I think you’re trying too hard to find a conspiracy. Divorce is scary indeed, and there’s no reason why the divorce rate should be as high as it is; however, I don’t think that people are trying to get other people to marry. It works for SOME people. I don’t think it should be avoided just because it doesn’t work out for some. There’s no horror movie here. It either works or it doesn’t, and there’s no conspiracy.
I think marriage would be obsolete, if there weren’t laws favoring people who are married. So while the law continues to discriminate in favor of married people marriage really cannot be obsolete, because it has tangible benefits.
I don’t mean a deliberate conspiracy. It is based on social expectations so people try to play the part and deceive others just because of their own idealistic view of marriage instead of the reality they living. In total, it adds up and many couples surprise everyone when the fantasy versus the reality is exposed. That leads new couples into into false marriage fantasy and it is one as well as a big business.
There are countless examples such as Al and Tipper but also the people down the street and probably in your family. The scary thing about marriage is that it puts up a wall between two people and the outside world even those that have known you longer and have even less reason to screw you over. You can’t really know what is going on in someone else’s marriage until the whole house comes crashing down and you will never know if it doesn’t end in disaster.I have close friends that are pulling off the grand lies right now and won’t get out for legitimate reasons.
I have seen too many people living a public lie to believe anyone anymore. Men cheat on their wives but they still enjoy the benefits of being married. Wives cheat on their husbands because they secretly hate them but they are trapped because of their kids and the money he brings. Name a permutation of that. I know someone personally who has done it and worse. Out of everyone I have ever known at all income levels and socioeconomic statuses, I only have suspicion that three couple have ever had a marriage as advertised (both happy, no extreme secrets, no infidelity). Those aren’t good odds and certainly not a game I would encourage anyone to play.
You need to change your way of thinking. You are thinking that because I’ve seen X, all people must do Y. I agree with you that it does happen; however, it probably doesn’t happen as much as you think it does. You are making it sound like it happens 100% of the time when it probably only happens a small percentage of the time. You shouldn’t avoid marriage just because it happens to some people.
There are infinite examples, huh? It hasn’t happened in my family. Also, it hasn’t happened to anyone I know. It’s more probable that you just know a lot of toxic people. It’s not that scary at all. It seems to me that you are letting toxic people influence the decisions you make or your outlook on marriage or life for that matter.
And in Pennsylvania a couple can marry themselves with no officials, just a witness or two. We got married there, not that way, but in the Ethical Culture Society in a purely secular ceremony. No ill effect noted 34 years and counting.
My experience isn’t definitive certainly but is spread across the country with many different subgroups. I have had the experience of knowing lots of different types of people closely and I don’t talk so people eventually open up with the deep, dark secrets. If roughly half of marriages end in divorce, at least half of those that are left really should based on the popular ideas of marriage but don’t because of various reasons. You are down to about a 25% success rate at best based on objective criteria. Quibbling about the real number is impossible to get real statistics on and could lead to slightly better results or much worse but the overall point stands.
I can’t criticize what works for someone however. If men cheat on their wives like most of my friends do undetected, what harm has been done if he is a good husband at home? The whole idea is based on a grand illusion supported by deceptions. It only works if everyone acts their roles really well however.
I don’t understand your math. I agree that roughly half of marriages end in divorce. Where did you get the 25% success rate from? I’m assuming you’re just making it up. I mean, you really don’t have to make up facts to convey a point, you know? You’re against marriage. It’s cool, but don’t make up facts. lol.
It is based on the fact that some significant percentage of marriages who don’t end in divorced are quite unhappy or dysfunctional yet can’t get divorced because of circumstances. I took a poll on this really long time ago here. I will see if I can find it. The consensus was that long-term happy marriages make up about 10% - 35% of the total. I just picked a higher number in the middle because it is fuzzy math that is impossible to get a precise answer on.
Eventually, yes. I don’t ask coworkers about their affairs but they eventually have to say something so they know they can trust you to stay quiet. It has happened everywhere I have ever worked and we are talking supermarkets to megacorps. If a married person invites you to strip club, he has to say something when he comes back from the back room 30 minutes later and a few hundred dollars lighter. Personal friends just have to explain something when they have to make strange phone calls to a female ‘friend’ that they have to meet for some dubious reason. Why would I care if they are treating their family right otherwise? There is a reason that Ashley Madison.com has the money to advertise on national TV. It is all part of the illusion of marriage. Not everyone does that stuff of course but it is remarkably prevalent.
I agree that it is prevalent, which just stresses the importance of finding someone worth marrying. I still don’t think the solution is to stay away from marriage, but that’s just me. Also, there’s no illusion. You marry someone because you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. You shouldn’t marry just because you don’t want to be alone, which is what I suspect a lot of these people do.
In my opinion, it works out better if you marry your best friend. However, it is just my opinion.
Also, relationships are tough - there’s no question. I think some people just don’t want to put forth the effort to sustain a positive relationship.
Surely you realize that “a poll on here” isn’t scientifically valid.
As long as we’re throwing around anecdotal evidence, I know plenty of people for whom marriage does work.
Maybe, as humblebumble says, you know a lot of toxic people (or maybe just selfish or immature or hard-to-get-along-with). Marriage doesn’t work very well when it involves toxic people, but then again, neither does anything else.
I’ll readily admit that some people are better off not getting married. But when a marriage ends unhappily or continues on unhappily, it’s the people, not the marriage, that are the cause of the unhappiness.
The problem with this analysis is that it does not take into account, the primary reason for marriage, children. The whole reason that marriage is til death do you part, instead of til I find someone better is to precommit both people to the relationship so that it is stable enough to provide a home for children. It is crazy to think that you are going to feel the same about a good looking twenty year old while your hormones are going crazy as you will about a paunchy forty year old when your hormones have calmed down. However it would be just as crazy to have kids with someone who is only in the relationship until they find someone hotter. Because marriage is so hard to dissolve, it commits both partners to the relationship in a way that mere promises can not do.
Talking about marriage without children is missing the whole point.
The 50% of marriages ending in divorce thing isn’t quite accurate. Here is an article from Time about it.. In fact, things are getting better as we put off marriage.
People without college degrees do worse.
Perhaps because I hang with college educated people, I know of no one bragging about cheating on his wife, including people who have gotten divorced.
And guessing on the number of happy marriages is ridiculous. Some periods are better than others. Some people like to complain even when things are good, and some people don’t complain when things are bad. And I’m sure fewer people talk about how happy their marriage is as opposed to complaining.
It is impossible to know the real numbers because people lie about these things so there isn’t any such thing as a scientific poll on these matters. I do know lot of people who might be considered toxic who failed at marriage over and over but also many otherwise great people who failed at marriage as well. I know very few that have a good case for having a traditionally strong marriage and I don’t really see the point even if they did. A lot of those require the partners, especially wives, to ‘surrender’ to their fate and put the marriage above all else no matter what. No thanks. I don’t see the point.
I believe long-term, happy marriages can happen, I just don’t think it is as nearly as common as some people would choose to believe. Along with the obvious failures, there are many more who live public and private deception. It isn’t an institution that attempts to buck psychology, biology and realism and anything that attempts is bound for failure most of the time but not always.
I was married for ten years and have two beautiful children to show for it. I don’t regret that at all and still get along great with my ex-wife an her family even to the point of celebrating holidays and going on vacation with them. I agree with the sentiment that the point of marriage is to have and raise children above all else.
Outside of that, it is all risk and little reward. I admit that I never found a way out of that issue because I wanted to have kids. After that process is complete however, there is little reason to be married other than codependency and legal complications that grow more entrenched over time. I love being divorced and single more than anything I have ever done and I plan to stay that way while still being a good parent.
There are multiple solutions to the problem of child-rearing and a sustained marriage isn’t necessarily the best one as long as both parents have the means to do better individually than they can as a forced couple.
You’re against marriage. It’s cool, but don’t make up facts. lol.
Also, there’s no illusion. You marry someone because you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. You shouldn’t marry just because you don’t want to be alone, which is what I suspect a lot of these people do.