# Is McCain forked yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604 "2008-05-25T23:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/381 "2008-08-21T21:09:49Z")
The ‘McCain is Rich’ strategy is going to backfire on Obama. This is a stupid attack. And it opens the door to McCain re-opening the Rezko connection to Obama’s own house, and to Obama’s association with Jim Johnson, who is implicated in corruption having to do with the mortgage crisis. It also opens Obama up to the charge of class warfare, which plays well to his base but which turns off republicans and independents. And as we’ve seen with Edward’s massive home and high-living lifestyle, and Gore’s using 20 X more power than the average citizen in his home while calling for conservation, and Kerry’s fabulous wealth, this stuff just does not have traction with the voters. Even when it whiffs of hypocrisy, as it does with these three fabulously wealthy liberals. Everyone yawned when Republicans tried to play the wealth card. Obama’s ‘brand’ is based on him being a new kind of politician. One who won’t run the same old kind of campaign, who won’t resort to smears and innuendo and other dirty tricks, and who will bring a new high-minded tone and civility to Washington. Every time he pulls one of these stunts, it hurts his brand. If he becomes just another Washington pol clawing for power, and not someone who’s bringing change and a new kind of leadership, he’s toast. Also, his campaign is starting to look a little desperate and afraid, and that’s also not a good thing for him to project. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/382 "2008-08-21T21:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Rogers called the house story “by far the most personal attack” of the campaign, and said “it comes from a candidate who said he was against this kind of thing.” You’ve got to keep your sense of humor about these things. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/383 "2008-08-21T21:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Can someone point me in the direction of a source to this “arugula eating” claim? I suspect it’s merely Coulterian hyperbole that the wierdos in the McCain camp are running around with to paint Obama as an elite, but I’d like to know for sure. [/QUOTE] From here (in July of 2007, when he was campaiging in Iowa): [http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/obamas-down-on-the-farm/](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/obamas-down-on-the-farm/) > [@](#): > > Again, the crowd applauded and laughed. One line that landed a little flat, though, was when Mr. Obama sympathetically noted that farmers have not seen an increase in prices for their crops, despite a rise in prices at the supermarket. > > “Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?” the senator said. “I mean, they’re charging a lot of money for this stuff.” > > The state of Iowa, for all of its vast food production, does not have a Whole Foods, a leading natural and organic foods market. The closest? Omaha, Minneapolis or Kansas City. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/384 "2008-08-21T21:15:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] It also opens Obama up to the charge of class warfare, which plays well to his base but which turns off republicans and independents. And as we’ve seen with Edward’s massive home and high-living lifestyle, and Gore’s using 20 X more power than the average citizen in his home while calling for conservation, and Kerry’s fabulous wealth, this stuff just does not have traction with the voters. Even when it whiffs of hypocrisy, as it does with these three fabulously wealthy liberals. Everyone yawned when Republicans tried to play the wealth card. [/quote] News Flash: Those 3 liberals lost. > [@](#): > > Obama’s ‘brand’ is based on him being a new kind of politician. One who won’t run the same old kind of campaign, who won’t resort to smears and innuendo and other dirty tricks, and who will bring a new high-minded tone and civility to Washington. Every time he pulls one of these stunts, it hurts his brand. If he becomes just another Washington pol clawing for power, and not someone who’s bringing change and a new kind of leadership, he’s toast. I asked this in another thread: How is it a “smear” to remind people McCain is rich? What “innuendo” is actually being asserted? Arguing that a politician may be “out of touch” with everyday voter’s interests and perceptions is not a character attack (or if it is, than “character attack” loses all real-world meaning). > [@](#): > > Also, his campaign is starting to look a little desperate and afraid, and that’s also not a good thing for him to project. McCain is dipping into the Rezko trough and you’re calling Obama desperate? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/385 "2008-08-21T21:22:10Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] The state of Iowa, for all of its vast food production, does not have a Whole Foods, a leading natural and organic foods market. The closest? Omaha, Minneapolis or Kansas City. [/QUOTE] The problem with the NY Times story is that it suggest arugula is some kind of foreign substance in Iowa, when in fact, it’s [farmed in Iowa](http://mediamatters.org/items/200708280009) and sold in Farmer’s Markets across the state. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/386 "2008-08-21T21:32:57Z")
Funny, I was just thinking that McCain’s campaign is looking deperate and afraid. When campaign representatives start accusing the opposition and their supporters of being “concerned with the price of arugula” and being a “Dungeons & Dragons crowd…in mom’s basement,” that reeks of desperation-- attempting to belittle is just school-yard bullshit. I still don’t get the whole arugula-eating thing. Maybe if McCain’s people wanted to slam Obama for shopping at Whole Foods, that would make more sense-- that’s a little more elitist. I bet more Americans eat arugula than don’t know how many homes they own today. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/387 "2008-08-21T21:38:57Z")
[continues](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/mccains_bought_second_beach_ho.php): > [@](#): > > Here’s a fun little find that is likely to give Dems more ammo to blast away at John McCain’s number-of-houses gaffe. > > It turns out that a few months ago, a McCain family corporation closed on a second multi-million-dollar beach condo in the same building in exclusive Coronado, California – at around the same time that John McCain offered his somewhat tone-deaf observation that struggling homeowners were “working at second jobs” and “skipping a vacation” in order to make mortgage payments on time. > > [snip] > > And in another fun fact that could pour fuel on this controversy, Cindy told her interviewer that the reason they needed a second beach condo in the Coronado building was that the first was too crowded because her kids were staying there and as a result she “couldn’t get in the place.” > > Cindy continued: “So I bought another one.” ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/388 "2008-08-21T21:45:35Z")
From [ABC](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/mccain-backs-aw.html): > [@](#): > > ABC News’ Teddy Davis and Rigel Anderson Report: John McCain’s campaign signaled on Wednesday that the Arizona senator is backing away from his previously stated goal of changing the GOP’s platform on abortion. > > [snip] > > McCain’s plan to take a hands-off approach with the abortion platform stands in stark contrast with the position he took during his first presidential run. Back in 2000, McCain clashed with then-Gov. George W. Bush over his unwillingness to change platform language that called for a human life amendment banning all abortions. McCain implored Bush to join him in wanting to add exceptions for rape, incest, and danger to the life of the mother. > > [snip] > > But now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, the McCain camp is making it clear that he has no plans to push for changes to the platform. McCain’s decision to leave the platform untouched follows a warning from a prominent social conservative. > > “If he were to change the party platform,” to account for exceptions such as rape, incest or risk to the mother’s life, “I think that would be political suicide,” Tony Perkins, the president of the conservative Family Research Council, told ABC News in May. “I think he would be aborting his own campaign because that is such a critical issue to so many Republican voters and the Republican brand is already in trouble.” > > While leaving the platform untouched would please many in the GOP’s socially conservative base, it could alienate some of the more moderate voters that McCain is hoping to attract. “If he doesn’t change the platform, then he’s being the same kind of hypocrite that he accused Bush of being in 2000,” Jennifer Blei Stockman, the co-chairwoman of Republican Majority for Choice, told ABC News in May. “Many people think of him as a moderate,” she added. “But when it comes out that he doesn’t want to change this extreme, right-wing Republican platform, the word ‘moderate’ is going to disappear from any description of McCain.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/389 "2008-08-21T21:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] From [ABC](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/mccain-backs-aw.html): [/QUOTE] So what? How many people pay attention to either party’s platform anyway? All these pols make compromises like this to get elected. Do you really think Obama is opposed to Same Sex Marriage? I doubt it. Hillary probably isn’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/390 "2008-08-21T22:01:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Do you really think Obama is opposed to Same Sex Marriage? [/QUOTE] He’s never come out in favor of it, and then changed his mind. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/391 "2008-08-21T22:03:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So what? How many people pay attention to either party’s platform anyway? All these pols make compromises like this to get elected. Do you really think Obama is opposed to Same Sex Marriage? I doubt it. Hillary probably isn’t, either. [/QUOTE] If McCain is such a maverick, willing to buck his party and reach across the aisle, why isn’t he willing to do what he tried to do back in the good ole’ days (2000)? Having a party platform that opposes **all** abortions, even in instances of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is at stake, is not something you can argue as “centrist” or “moderate”, and it is something that will get plenty of airplay in the media–to his candidacy’s detriment when it comes to swing voters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/392 "2008-08-21T22:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] If McCain is such a maverick, willing to buck his party and reach across the aisle, why isn’t he willing to do what he tried to do back in the good ole’ days (2000)? [/quote] Probably because he lost to Bush in the primaries in 2000. > [@](#): > > Having a party platform that opposes **all** abortions, even in instances of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is at stake, is not something you can argue as “centrist” or “moderate”, and it is something that will get plenty of airplay in the media–to his candidacy’s detriment when it comes to swing voters. Yeah, like it did in 2004, right? Besides, what makes you think any Republican buys into the entire party platform? Since the topic of debate here is whether or not McCain is “forked” yet, I’ll just say that this is no indication of his forkedness. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/393 "2008-08-21T22:26:47Z")
At this point, I think everyone knows nobody will be “forked” for many weeks still–it’ll be a close race for a while. But there are things that help and things that hurt–and supporting an unpopular, zero-tolerance position about an emotional subject will not help McCain when fighting with Obama for the voters populating the middle ground (whom McCain needs to get elected). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/394 "2008-08-21T22:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] [continues](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/mccains_bought_second_beach_ho.php): \*And in another fun fact that could pour fuel on this controversy, Cindy told her interviewer that the reason they needed a second beach condo in the Coronado building was that the first was too crowded because her kids were staying there and as a result she “couldn’t get in the place.” Cindy continued: “So I bought another one.”\* [/QUOTE] Is that a “let them eat cake” moment? Because I recall how well things worked out for the first person who (supposedly) said it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/395 "2008-08-21T23:54:03Z")
“Eats arugula” vs “Doesn’t know how many homes he owns”. Ooh, who is more out of touch with the mainstream? I just can’t guess. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/396 "2008-08-22T03:40:28Z")
[This](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#26338490) and [this](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#26338501) link kind of show that any counter-attacks that McCain tries to make on this front are pretty much DOA. What with the presumably multi-million dollar Arizona ranch redecoration in 2005 that landed the McCains on the Cover of Architectural Digest to the $1 million condo in La Jolla to the part ownership of the Diamondbacks, to the million dollar parking lot, the private jet, the homes in Arlington and in the Carribean, McCain has a lot of trouble proclaiming that he’s for the little guy, especially since he’s toeing Phil Graham’s economic line quite steadily and to cut taxes for the wealthy. It is indeed a fairly strong economy for the obscenely rich. Obama immediately leapt on this with a commercial and in his campaign speeches. Ironically, McCain’s shootback ad, as well as going back to the ‘elitist’ well (point-headed, arugla-eating, gun and bible hating, etc…) and the Razko well, mentions that Obama made $4 million last year - not even enough to meet his own definition of rich this past Saturday evening. Ok, and of course it mentioned that McCain was a POW, which apparently canonizes everything he’s ever done since. I think this is a huge break for Obama, and he may very well postpone his Veep announcement until Saturday morning to let this news ride on its own for as long as possible. Then the Sunday pundits will have two stories for the price of one. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/397 "2008-08-22T13:20:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] The ‘McCain is Rich’ strategy is going to backfire on Obama. This is a stupid attack. [/QUOTE] On the contrary; it neatly pulls the fangs of McCain’s attempts to paint him as an out-of-touch elitist. Stuff like this (and the $5 million definition of “rich” wisecrack, and the “I don’t disagree” response to a questioner who said that we should reinstate the draft) suggest that McCain needs to work on his ability to think on his feet and keep those feet out of his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/398 "2008-08-22T14:55:08Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Funny, I was just thinking that McCain’s campaign is looking deperate and afraid. When campaign representatives start accusing the opposition and their supporters of being “concerned with the price of arugula” and being a “Dungeons & Dragons crowd…in mom’s basement,” that reeks of desperation-- attempting to belittle is just school-yard bullshit. [/QUOTE] [Pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons Crowd page.](http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Pro-ObamaDungeonsandDragonsCrowd) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/399 "2008-08-22T17:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] [Pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons Crowd page.](http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/Pro-ObamaDungeonsandDragonsCrowd) [/QUOTE] How fun! The last one on their membership is “XT”! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/400 "2008-08-22T19:28:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Cindy told her interviewer that the reason they needed a second beach condo in the Coronado building was that the first was too crowded because her kids were staying there and as a result she “couldn’t get in the place.” > > Cindy continued: “So I bought another one.” Like Tammy Faye Bakker, only with better makeup, and even more money! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=21)