# Is McCain forked yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604 "2008-05-25T23:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/681 "2008-09-29T05:04:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You have an actual citation that Muthee has actually encouraged such an action? Well he didn’t encourage it so much as he actually frickin did it. Not only did he do it but has been widely praised for doing it in the “Christian” community. [linky](http://santitafarella.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/scapegoating-mama-jane-an-evangelical-book-on-missions-tells-the-story-of-sarah-palins-witch-hunting-supporter-thomas-muthee-and-the-woman-he-accused-of-witchcraft-mama-jane/) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/682 "2008-09-29T05:12:04Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Well he didn’t encourage it so much as he actually frickin did it. Not only did he do it but has been widely praised for doing it in the “Christian” community. > > [linky](http://santitafarella.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/scapegoating-mama-jane-an-evangelical-book-on-missions-tells-the-story-of-sarah-palins-witch-hunting-supporter-thomas-muthee-and-the-woman-he-accused-of-witchcraft-mama-jane/) OK. I had not encountered that story, yet. I am willing to place Muthee into the category “kook” based on that. His (edited) sermon, however, really did not run into witch hunting or violations of SOCAS or persecution of people, so the title of the link is still misleading. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/683 "2008-09-29T05:23:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > OK. I had not encountered that story, yet. > I am willing to place Muthee into the category “kook” based on that. How about people who invite him into their church and praise him for his efforts in fighting “the devil”? And people who stand up to be prayed over by him to protect them from “all forms of witchcraft”? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/684 "2008-09-29T05:36:58Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > She was struggling to find a demographic with whom she was winning, so that she could justify staying in the race. She wasn’t ready to give up quite yet. White working-class men was the one she had. > > Don’t get me wrong. I think Hillary would have been perfectly willing to take the votes of those who feared voting for Obama just because of his race, just as I think Obama would have been perfectly willing to take the votes of those who feared voting for Obama just because of her sex. One often gets the votes of people one would personally feel distaste for. But I don’t think the Clintons fostered racism one bit more than Obama fostered sexism, which is to say not at all. I repeat what I said above - it would have been political suicide for her, and she’s not the type to commit suicide. She isn’t the type to commit suicide, and that’s why she was very careful with how she played it. > [@askeptic](#): > > That was a legitimate concern. Go visit my home state of Alabama then come talk about whether some whites will refuse to vote for a black guy. It shouldn’t be. What if she said out right that you shouldn’t vote for Obama because white people won’t voter for him in the national election? How is this different from saying don’t vote for Obama because he is black? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/685 "2008-09-29T06:40:25Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > It shouldn’t be. What if she said out right that you shouldn’t vote for Obama because white people won’t voter for him in the national election? How is this different from saying don’t vote for Obama because he is black? “Don’t vote for him because he is black” is completely different than “Vote for me because many racist people may not vote for him.” You may want consider difference between “Playing on racist fears” and “Playing on fears of racism” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/686 "2008-09-29T15:31:30Z")
What is up with the “GW/Battleground” poll on the RCP site? They’ve stubbornly stayed at McCain +2 for the past week even while every other daily is giving it to Obama by 5+ points. The “link” for the poll is a single page PDF graph with very little information. I understand it’s through George Washington University but… yeesh… they must only be calling Arkansas or something from the looks of it. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/687 "2008-09-29T20:59:21Z")
McCain’s support of casinos and his own gambling practices are starting to get some interest, at least on the left. About his love of craps, I’ve seen descriptions range from the pretty innocuous to “monthly binge” to flat out “gambling problem”. I couldn’t care less if he gambles (as long as he’s not selling votes to finance a habit, which I don’t think has been alleged), but will this story get any traction, and will it give social conservatives a new reason to stay home on Election Day? A few cites: [The Questions for Perot about McCain and Gambling | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-posner/the-questions-for-perot-a_b_130277.html) (this piece is kind of smarmy, but could illustrate things to come) > **[John McCain's gambling habit could alienate Christian Republicans](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/3098739/John-McCains-gambling-habit-could-alienate-Christian-Republicans.html)** > > Senator John McCain faced alienating the influential Christian wing of the Republican Party after it was revealed that he is a keen gambler with extensive ties to the gaming industry. > **[Chicago News - Chicago Tribune - Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/)** > > Chicago Tribune ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/688 "2008-09-29T21:47:28Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > It shouldn’t be. What if she said out right that you shouldn’t vote for Obama because white people won’t voter for him in the national election? How is this different from saying don’t vote for Obama because he is black? It shouldn’t be a legitimate concern? Say what? 😕 It is a huge concern, right up there with the “smear”\* that he’s Muslim. I don’t live in Alabama, but I do live near a racially segregated city. It matters. Obama has done extraordinarily well in keeping race out of this campaign. IMO, it’s the last card McCain has to play. Don’t think for a minute that he won’t. I wish I lived in your America. I’m a white upper middle class (now middle class, the times they are a-changin’) suburban mom and I can see this happening and soon. Who was the black politician (I think he was black) that was done in by the ads depicting essentially white hookers and blow? It ended, “call me” as said by a hooker. Who was that? I don’t recall, but stuff like that will happen. If not on national TV then in phone calls and push polls. \*I don’t consider this a smear, but apparently many people do. Pathetic, really. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/689 "2008-09-29T21:56:40Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Who was the black politician (I think he was black) that was done in by the ads depicting essentially white hookers and blow? It ended, “call me” as said by a hooker. Who was that? I don’t recall, but stuff like that will happen. If not on national TV then in phone calls and push polls. That was Harold Ford, Jr., in Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/690 "2008-09-29T22:09:42Z")
Just an FYI for the thread. Anyone hear NPR [today](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95177403)? [Kathleen Parker](http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE)said: > [@](#): > > Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is clearly out of her league. Parker says Palin should bow out of the race to save the GOP’s chances in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/691 "2008-09-29T22:11:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > That was Harold Ford, Jr., in Tennessee. Thank you. I can see something like that happening. Desperate people do desperate things–and McCain does not like to lose. Hearing him do a 180 on his “rescue” while Obama phoned it in, only to change so fast it gave me whiplash to “we must put aside partisanship” today was entertaining, though. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/692 "2008-09-29T22:14:33Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Thank you. I can see something like that happening. Desperate people do desperate things–and McCain does not like to lose. Understand, though, that Ford had his own problems during the campaign. His family, who are also active in Tennessee politics, has a reputation for corruption, and he made a few missteps in campaigning (showing up at one of his opponent’s events uninvited to have his own press availability in an attempt to eclipse his opponent’s, for one). That’s not to say that race didn’t play a part in the Tennessee Senate race. Just that it wasn’t the only possible negative for Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/693 "2008-09-29T22:47:25Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Hearing him do a 180 on his “rescue” while Obama phoned it in, only to change so fast it gave me whiplash to “we must put aside partisanship” today was entertaining, though. That whole “phoned it in” accusation was hilariously outrageous, considering his new BFF, Lieberman, defended him not returning to Washington after the debate as he’d promised, by pointing out that **he made 17 phone calls** on Saturday! Oooooo, I’m sooooo impressed. Not. > [@](#): > > On a conference call, Sen. Lieberman also says Obama’s claim that McCain’s response to the financial crisis was “Katrina-like” is “just more politics, and simply not true.” > > Says McCain was a key “bridge-builder” for the rescue agreement. “He played a very important and constructive role” to help “protect America’s families and businesses from real economic pain.” > > **Says McCain made 17 phone calls Saturday to lawmakers, Secretary Paulson and others to push for a deal.** > > [http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/28/mccain-team-to-respond-to-obama-rally/](http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/28/mccain-team-to-respond-to-obama-rally/) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/694 "2008-09-29T23:36:48Z")
17 phone calls. And then, his Farina & warm milk. And a nice nap. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/695 "2008-09-30T00:04:21Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > It shouldn’t be a legitimate concern? Say what? 😕 It is a huge concern, right up there with the “smear”\* that he’s Muslim. It shouldn’t be a campaign issue I mean. There will never be a time where the first black candidate for office won’t have concerns about racism. It will only go away after a black politician is elected. If you aren’t going to vote for a black guy because you don’t think he’ll win enough white votes, then a black person will never win. I will concede that I did exaggerate Hilary’s racism now that I’m thinking it over. She used race inappropriately, but she wasn’t racist. And now back to our regularly scheduled programming. What is McCain’s latest strategy? He is [blaming](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/mccains-mixed-messages_n_130376.html) Obama for messing up the bailout plan. Now we wait and see what Mr. Obama will do. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/696 "2008-09-30T00:38:18Z")
I’m still wondering when they’re going to bring up the Keating Five. This would seem to be the perfect time. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/697 "2008-09-30T01:49:24Z")
If [this rumor is true and it makes it out there, it could be a big nail.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/In_reintroduction_Palin_to_do_more_interviews_and_tell_her_story.html) > [@](#): > > Of concern to McCain’s campaign, however, is a remaining and still-undisclosed clip from Palin’s interview with Couric last week that has the political world buzzing. > > The Palin aide, after first noting how “infuriating” it was for CBS to purportedly leak word about the gaffe, revealed that it came in response to a question about Supreme Court decisions. > > After noting Roe vs. Wade, Palin was apparently unable to discuss any major court cases. > > There was no verbal fumbling with this particular question as there was with some others, the aide said, but rather silence. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/698 "2008-09-30T03:13:54Z")
I would just like to thank Senator McCain for the leadership he demonstrated today in the passage of the bailout bill by the US Congress. As Mitt Romney said, thank god for John McCain’s leadership on this issue! What? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/699 "2008-09-30T04:04:55Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That was a legitimate concern. Go visit my home state of Alabama then come talk about whether some whites will refuse to vote for a black guy. Hey! Today I was doing duty at the local Democratic headquarters, greeting walk-ins, dispensing Obama swag (we got yard signs in at last!) and generally holding down the modest fort, when in walked: A retired couple from Pisgah, Alabama! Who are on vacation in New England and were just passing by when they saw our little window display and that the office was open, and stopped to get some Obama bumper stickers and buttons! Lovely people! The husband said they live a good dozen miles from the nearest red light. They’re bound for Maine, but promised to make a stop at the local doughnut shop when I told them how good it was, and just a few dozen yards’ walk away, over a bridge dating back to the 1640s. I know they did go there because the husband came back in a bit, paper bag in hand, to inform me that when he’d told the woman at the doughnut shop who’d recommended them, she gave him a discount! Last I knew, they were headed north, seeming inclined to take my advice to stop at the Clam Box and discover the sublime delights of Ipswich fried clams. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/700 "2008-09-30T04:27:40Z")
As for who is forked, [this](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html) looks promising. If Florida goes blue, it’s all over but the lawsuits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=36)