# Is McCain forked yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604 "2008-05-25T23:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/941 "2008-10-04T20:13:05Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You’re missing the point: I think McCain has some kind of weird plan involving the Town Hall debate. He’s been _awfully_ enthused about them. And if I were John, I wouldn’t be. A charismatic man who is _also_ a policy wonk, versus someone who tends not to know what bills are about and has to be told by his staffers which way to vote? One comment a talking head made was that McCain does pretty well in the town halls that are completely packed with Republicans–better than he does at speeches. So, they are extrapolating from this to a town hall debate with a potentially hostile audience. I think it’s nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/942 "2008-10-04T20:15:14Z")
Where geographically is it going to be, and how are they going to control the mix? What are they going to do to prevent the Pubs from cheating on the mix by lying about affiliation? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/943 "2008-10-04T20:15:45Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You’re missing the point: I think McCain has some kind of weird plan involving the Town Hall debate. He’s been _awfully_ enthused about them. And if I were John, I wouldn’t be. A charismatic man who is _also_ a policy wonk, versus someone who tends not to know what bills are about and has to be told by his staffers which way to vote? > > Clearly, both camps are going to try to cram the town hall full of their supporters. But what else can John do? I picked the gun question as something that they can ask Obama to ‘break’ him in public, but what else is there? I’d guess it has something to do with the meme that Obama can give a good scripted speech, but will fall apart when he has to think on his feet. That’s got to be a powerful notion for McCain. Not only will Obama come across as a fool, but McCain will be able to dominate the conversation, taking questions and working the room. I don’t think that’s the reality at all, but honestly, I think McCain and Reality parted ways a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/944 "2008-10-04T20:45:12Z")
A while back, around 2000, Republicans stopped just using “the press is liberal” as a strategy and started believing it. McCain now thinks that if the polls say Obama is ahead, well, that’s just the liberal media lying to him. He thinks the pollster lie or the newspapers lie when they report the results. So of course he thinks a roomful of people (unless they’re America-hating liberal sociopaths and Obama cultists) will be overwhelmed by his lovely story and capitalist dogma and root for him, and the rest of America with them. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/945 "2008-10-04T21:11:15Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > So of course he thinks a roomful of people (unless they’re America-hating liberal sociopaths and Obama cultists) will be overwhelmed by his lovely story … Not such a lovely story after all. [A must read link](http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/1) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/946 "2008-10-04T23:13:29Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You’re missing the point: I think McCain has some kind of weird plan involving the Town Hall debate. He’s been _awfully_ enthused about them. And if I were John, I wouldn’t be. A charismatic man who is _also_ a policy wonk, versus someone who tends not to know what bills are about and has to be told by his staffers which way to vote? > > Clearly, both camps are going to try to cram the town hall full of their supporters. But what else can John do? I picked the gun question as something that they can ask Obama to ‘break’ him in public, but what else is there? The moderator of the town hall debate will be Tom Brokaw. [McCain is counting on his help, I’m sure,](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/tom-brokaw-acting-as-nbc_n_130453.html) to direct the questioning in his favor. Perhaps not as blatantly as in Stephanopolis’s sandbagging of Obama, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/947 "2008-10-05T01:30:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yeah, like that. I know Obama thinks that way. But I’m talking about the party as a whole. It needs to come off the platform at some point. Can’t say I realized it was still in the platform. But nobody reads that stuff anyway. And by and large, the Dems haven’t tried to make an issue of gun control since they were clobbered with it in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/948 "2008-10-05T02:15:18Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The moderator of the town hall debate will be Tom Brokaw. > > [McCain is counting on his help, I’m sure,](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/tom-brokaw-acting-as-nbc_n_130453.html) to direct the questioning in his favor. Perhaps not as blatantly as in Stephanopolis’s sandbagging of Obama, but we’ll see. Brokaw can be a guy who wanted the McCain story and whose journalistic standards were put off by Olbermann’s editorializing and still not support McCain. I have trouble imagining that anyone with his degree of knowledge and intelligence would, and I’d bet you good money that he doesn’t. However, we’ll never, ever know, as he is too good a journalist to ever reveal that publicly. Certainly the right wing believe the entire NBC network other than Morning Joe to be in the bag for Obama, or at least so they say publicly. I don’t believe Brokaw will slant this anymore than I believed Jim Lehrer would or Gwen Ifill would. And I don’t think either of them did. ETA: You know I like you a lot, **ETF** , but I think you, or rather Huffington Post, are mistaken here. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/949 "2008-10-05T02:50:31Z")
How in the hell can McCain and Palin describe themselves as the “Original Mavericks”. I just saw that ad and it bugs the crap out of me. Nothing of real substance here, just had to ask because it’s burning a hole in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/950 "2008-10-05T04:47:40Z")
Another thing McCain can do besides going negative is to come up with a good message about the economy. I don’t see the people who left him because of the crisis coming back if he keeps ignoring the economy or keeps promising deregulation. It’s not 1980 anymore. That message isn’t going to work. Of course I don’t see this happening at all. He’s going to totally ignore the economy and go completely negative. Obama is especially vulnerable to negative campaigning because he is different, and people will easily believe falsehoods about people who are different. Obama won’t do anything different yet. He’ll play it safe and watch to see if the negative ads are going to hurt him. If they do some damage I suspect he’ll try something bold, but otherwise there is no point in taking risks when you have a considerable lead. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/951 "2008-10-05T05:49:27Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Brokaw can be a guy who wanted the McCain story and whose journalistic standards were put off by Olbermann’s editorializing and still not support McCain. I have trouble imagining that anyone with his degree of knowledge and intelligence would, and I’d bet you good money that he doesn’t. However, we’ll never, ever know, as he is too good a journalist to ever reveal that publicly. Certainly the right wing believe the entire NBC network other than Morning Joe to be in the bag for Obama, or at least so they say publicly. > > I don’t believe Brokaw will slant this anymore than I believed Jim Lehrer would or Gwen Ifill would. And I don’t think either of them did. > > ETA: You know I like you a lot, **ETF** , but I think you, or rather Huffington Post, are mistaken here. I certainly, fervently hope that you are right and that us paranoid types are wrong. But after watching what Gibson and Stephanopolous did to Obama in that last debate with Hillary, well, it’s difficult not to be at least a bit suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/952 "2008-10-05T14:51:52Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I certainly, fervently hope that you are right and that us paranoid types are wrong. But after watching what Gibson and Stephanopolous did to Obama in that last debate with Hillary, well, it’s difficult not to be at least a bit suspicious. Further, why does a network _need_ a dedicated “liaison” to a campaign on a media outlet’s staff? Every candidate knows that news outlets can be a way to get air time and get their message out, regardless of that network’s perceived leanings (Obama/O’Reilly, anyone?). Why does a candidate need a person inside the network to facilitate that for them solely unless they’re seeking concessions/stroking/special treatment and can be sure that person might cater to that? I can see a role for a liaison but they should play that role for all campaigns, not just the one. I’m not saying I know that NBC or Brokaw are leaning in any one direction but it sure does looks suspicious to me that the McCain hasn’t at any turn, especially since he gave away favor in the media by his tactics, made himself or his running mate freely available, nor he he held back from trying to manipulate the media with accusations of bias and/or prejudgments about the “unfairness of life” when it comes to reporting of poll numbers. I’m really shocked and dismayed that there isn’t any more of an uproar over Palin’s non-availability to the media and the electorate. And does anyone remember McCain threatening reporters with non-access to his plane if they reported something he didn’t like? Brokaw’s role with their campaign and NBC seems to be of a piece with this. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/953 "2008-10-05T15:15:12Z")
**FYI:** I’ve tried to but couldn’t find the original post speculating what a broadcast of the debates would be like if they had instant fact-checking projected onto the screen as they went along. **CNN will be doing just that with the Vice-Presidential debate today at 4:00 CDT.** ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/954 "2008-10-05T17:53:25Z")
Obama is [preempting](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14283.html)McCain’s attack. This one is his most effective ads yet. It’s calling out McCain for being erratic in a crisis, ignoring the economy, not understanding the economy, and being out of touch like President Bush. All four of those things have been Obama’s most effective attacks to date. I’m glad he’s channeling all of them in for one really powerful attack. I am really impressed. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/955 "2008-10-05T17:56:21Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Obama is [preempting](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14283.html)McCain’s attack. Thats genius. McCain has gotten outplayed at every turn. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/956 "2008-10-05T18:08:20Z")
What is it about the phrase “out of touch”? Does that score twelve billion points on Luntz’s polls or some shit? Can’t they find another way of saying it? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/957 "2008-10-05T18:32:45Z")
Anybody know where I can find an alternative link to that? Brightcove (whatever that is) seems to have its thumb up its ass at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/958 "2008-10-05T18:33:30Z")
Try here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y42RErUjfAc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y42RErUjfAc) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/959 "2008-10-05T18:39:39Z")
Thanks! That worked fine. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/960 "2008-10-05T18:43:20Z")
> [@Influential\_Panda](#): > > What is it about the phrase “out of touch”? Does that score twelve billion points on Luntz’s polls or some shit? Can’t they find another way of saying it? You’re not really a panda either, are you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=49)