# Is McCain forked yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604 "2008-05-25T23:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/981 "2008-10-06T16:28:16Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Me, I’d like to see a volcanic eruption on Election Day, a Mt. St. Helens that blows the top off the mountain of corruption and partisan paralysis in Washington, that blasts the land bare of neocons and theocons, that blankets the country with a fresh new landscape of reform, that… > > Well, you get the picture. 😉 Oh Boy so would I. I don’t think that is going to happen because we must not underestimate the magnitude of ignorance in this country…That being said, this campaign is Obama’s to lose, I don’t see him doing that. I’ll join you for a picnic on the new landscape after it is all over and the dust clears and the dems begin scraping the pubbies up off the ground. I bet Palin doesn’t come to the lower 48 for many moons after this is all over… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/982 "2008-10-06T16:32:48Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > This whole “troubling relationships” thing not only pisses me off, but stuns me, as well. Do they _really_ want to go there? If McCain, as opposed to state party people and 527 groups, goes with the “troubling relationships” thing, how long do you think it’ll be before we start seeing official ads about the Keating Five? Well, it looks like those gloves are off. What really boggles my mind is that the front person on the “troubling relationships” attack is someone with a few [nutty-pastor](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/pastor-muthee-a.html) and [anti-American](http://web.archive.org/web/20080116105845/http://www.akip.org/introduction.html) associations of her own. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/983 "2008-10-06T16:45:04Z")
McCain had to know that an Ayers & Wright attack would bring on a Keating 5 counter-attack…which means McCain is desperate. But with regard to hammering home the economic issue: if I was running Obama’s campaign, I wouldn’t try to tie McCain personally to the mess (because, frankly, it’s a weak association, and the Democrats bear at least partial responsibility). Instead, I would argue from a general policy/platform point of view: the American people are in a regulatory mood, and the Republicans are the wrong place to turn for that. Something like…“Republicans are naturally pre-disposed to deregulation. They never saw an industry that needed regulation, and for them to try to pass themselves off as regulators now, is like (insert folksy metaphor here) a dog walking on its hind legs. They are the party of Hoover and the Great Depression. We are the party of FDR and the New Deal.” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/984 "2008-10-06T17:10:39Z")
Probably not news to most posters in this thread, but two new [polls](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/vapres/)put Obama up by double digits in Virginia. Three [polls](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/nhpres/)over the past few days have Obama up by 10 or more points in New Hampshire as well. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/985 "2008-10-06T17:20:59Z")
Does the Secret Service check the candidates’ pockets for weapons? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/986 "2008-10-06T17:40:24Z")
> [@C3](#): > > I think the idea is going to tie McCain’s involvement with the Keating 5 into the present economic mess. So, it’s not really changing the subject, at least not nearly as much as any talk about Ayers or Rezko (which I’ve heard is going to be the next line of attack from the McCain camp…they’re not really holding their cards close to their chest, are they?). They’ve already started. The boreal bimbo spoke in the Bay Area over the weekend, and the smear seemed to be the major theme of her talk. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/987 "2008-10-06T17:44:27Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Does the Secret Service check the candidates’ pockets for weapons? You think McCain’s going to pull a Tonya Harding at the next debate? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/988 "2008-10-06T17:45:39Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > McCain had to know that an Ayers & Wright attack would bring on a Keating 5 counter-attack…which means McCain is desperate. > > But with regard to hammering home the economic issue: if I was running Obama’s campaign, I wouldn’t try to tie McCain personally to the mess (because, frankly, it’s a weak association, and the Democrats bear at least partial responsibility). Why is it a weak association? McCain received a good deal of money from Keating, he took family vacations on Keating’s dime nine times, he stayed at Keating’s home in Jamaica several times, and his wife and FIL were involved in an investment deal with Keating. That’s a weak association? Do we need to find out that Keating was regularly polishing McCain’s knob before it’s a strong association? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/989 "2008-10-06T17:46:50Z")
The only recent state-by-state movement I notice is that Colorado is now just a tiny bit red. It was only a tiny bit blue before. The gist of the state of public opinion is beginning to slow down its rate of change, which is a terrible thing for McCain and wonderful for Obama. If the polls crystallize where they are now McCain is toast; he would at best manage 247 EVs, if I give him the benefit of the doubt in some close ones. He needs an epic debate win, I think, to move the polls significantly in his direction. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/990 "2008-10-06T17:57:29Z")
> [@Influential\_Panda](#): > > You think McCain’s going to pull a Tonya Harding at the next debate? The guy seriously, seriously freaks me out. I honestly wouldn’t put anything past him, if he realizes he’s really truly going to lose. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/991 "2008-10-06T18:09:02Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Why is it a weak association? McCain received a good deal of money from Keating, he took family vacations on Keating’s dime nine times, he stayed at Keating’s home in Jamaica several times, and his wife and FIL were involved in an investment deal with Keating. That’s a weak association? Do we need to find out that Keating was regularly polishing McCain’s knob before it’s a strong association? You misunderstand me. The Keating association is rock-solid (especially in comparison to Obama:Ayers). It’s McCain: current economic mess that’s a little fuzzier. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/992 "2008-10-06T18:09:52Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Well, it looks like those gloves are off. > > What really boggles my mind is that the front person on the “troubling relationships” attack is someone with a few [nutty-pastor](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/pastor-muthee-a.html) and [anti-American](http://web.archive.org/web/20080116105845/http://www.akip.org/introduction.html) associations of her own. Maybe that’s what she is supposed to be: a pitbull with lipstick. And lookee–a nice, white lady up against an angry black man. Can we get more stereotyped than that? The Reps are so obvious in their petty hate. I don’t know whether to be disgusted or glad of that. I wish there were going to be a volcanic change in DC, but that’s not going to happen. The Dems are only marginally better than the Reps–each party has its own slime. I hope we do some good stuff on alternative energy and education, but I don’t hope for much. I hope for less insanity. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/993 "2008-10-06T18:15:19Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You misunderstand me. The Keating association is rock-solid (especially in comparison to Obama:Ayers). It’s McCain: current economic mess that’s a little fuzzier. Ahh, okay. I see what you mean. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/994 "2008-10-06T19:00:25Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Probably not news to most posters in this thread, but two new [polls](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/vapres/)put Obama up by double digits in Virginia. I just found out about those polls minutes ago. One of them’s SurveyUSA, too. 1. I’m a Marylander these days, but I’ve lived in Virginia for most of my life - not just in northern Virginia, but in Newport News and Bristol too. I like to think I still _understand_ Virginia quite well. But I can’t begin to get my head around this. 2. There’s no way on God’s green earth that McCain wins the election while losing Virginia. And if he’s in this much trouble in Virginia, he’s got to pull resources from elsewhere to save Virginia. Cascade failure. 3. McCain’s _so_ forked. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/995 "2008-10-06T19:56:49Z")
As it stands now, if McCain wins every state that Obama is leading by less than 5 points, he’ll edge out Obama 274 to 364. That means Obama has to lose all 111 electoral votes in states that are considered toss ups. In other news I noticed Georgia is now within Obama’s reach. [FiveThirtyEight.com](http://FiveThirtyEight.com) mentions that it can be won if enough black people turn out to vote. Next on the chopping block would be Texas and Montana, but they aren’t budging at all toward Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/996 "2008-10-06T20:08:00Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Next on the chopping block would be Texas and Montana, but they aren’t budging at all toward Obama. As far as I know, nobody’s polled Texas since 9/29, nor Montana since 10/1. If nobody’s looking, of course we’re not going to see movement. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/997 "2008-10-06T20:42:46Z")
[New Mexico](http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/06/new-mexico-numbers/): Obama 45, McCain 40. Conducted Sept. 29 - October 2. Error margin, 3.8 points. Virginia: Obama 51, McCain 39 Conducted Oct. 3-5. Error margin: 4 points. [National](http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/06/poll-obamas-national-lead-widens/): Obama 53, McCain 45 From CNN/Opinion Research Corp poll, among likely voters Dates conducted: Oct. 3-5. Error margin: 3.5 points He’s on his way to being well and truly forked on November 4th. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/998 "2008-10-06T20:54:43Z")
Now is the time to get down and dig. Work harder. Get out the vote. It ain’t over till it’s over and it’s still a month away. Things are looking good for Obama, but for god’s sake don’t think it’s a certainty. I am not even an American and I have to admit my hands tingle when I think of the happy excitement we might all feel on the morning of November 5. Most of us, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/999 "2008-10-06T20:55:57Z")
But a McCain spokesman just appeared on MSNBC to dispute the accuracy of these state polls!! This must mean that Obama is fucked! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604/1000 "2008-10-06T20:57:09Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Now is the time to get down and dig. Work harder. Get out the vote. It ain’t over till it’s over and it’s still a month away. > > Things are looking good for Obama, but for god’s sake don’t think it’s a certainty. > . Well said. Those Obama supporters who are either saying “McCain is forked!” or “Obama will lose due to racism” are not really helping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mccain-forked-yet/450604.md?page=51)