# Is "Merry Christmas" replacing "Happy Christmas" in Britain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140 "2018-12-14T21:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/21 "2018-12-17T05:58:29Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Can anyone confirm or deny that in Australia they say, “Bonzer Christmas!” Yes, all the time, particularly in June, because we are in the southern hemisphere so its coldest then and thats when we have Christmas. Otherwise, we’ll ejaculate a hearty ‘Merry Christ’s fucking sake!’ if we pereceive any language difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/22 "2018-12-17T06:05:24Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Yes, all the time, particularly in June, because we are in the southern hemisphere so its coldest then and thats when we have Christmas. > … And you put your Christmas trees in upside down, too, right?😛 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/23 "2018-12-17T06:29:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And you put your Christmas trees in upside down, too, right?😛 Yes. It’s easier to get the pointy end into the ground. Complete mystery to us why anyone else ever does it the other way. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/24 "2018-12-17T07:20:00Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Follow-up (semi-serious) question: does anyone say _Happy Krimble_ and/or _Merry Goo Year_ in Britain? > > (several long-time friends and I, all big Beatles fans, use those salutations in our holiday correspondence every year) Your private life is your business… (or in other words, someone might, but I’ve never heard of it} ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/25 "2018-12-17T07:56:03Z")
On a related subject, what about “Santa Claus” replacing “Father Christmas” in the UK as another name for St. Nicholas? Just from what I"ve seen on British TV shows, it seems the former name is being used more often than the latter. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/26 "2018-12-17T10:35:21Z")
Yes, Santa has a Noo Yawk accent and Father Christmas was the English personification of Christmas. > [@](#): > > Father Christmas (first recorded in the 14th century) was the English personification of Christmas. Just as Jack Frost is a personification of the cold and the Easter Bunny is a rabbitification of Easter, so Father Christmas stood for Christmas. He was an old man (because Christmas was ancient) and he was plump (because Christmas was a feast). But Father Christmas did not give presents, did not come down the chimney, had nothing to do with stockings or reindeer and did not live at the North Pole. All that stuff was Santa, and Santa was a New Yorker. Indeed, he’s pretty much entirely the invention of a single organisation: the New-York Historical Society. > > [https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/how-santa-claus-ate-father-christmas/](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/how-santa-claus-ate-father-christmas/) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/27 "2018-12-17T11:36:23Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > On a related subject, what about “Santa Claus” replacing “Father Christmas” in the UK as another name for St. Nicholas? Just from what I"ve seen on British TV shows, it seems the former name is being used more often than the latter. I think it’s a bit of a mish mash - ‘Santa’ seems very common (Santa Claus less so). I feel like the terms are pretty interchangeable amongst people I know. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/28 "2018-12-17T11:37:22Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Yes, Santa has a Noo Yawk accent and Father Christmas was the English personification of Christmas. New York, sure, but more of a patrician Astor/Guggenheim type accent, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/29 "2018-12-17T20:47:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Queen \*might \*be considered Quality. She seems to be going either way. In [last year’s Christmas message](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjTBcqpl2kc), she concluded by wishing a “peaceful and very happy Christmas”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/30 "2018-12-17T20:51:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And you put your Christmas trees in upside down, too, right?😛 No, they always put their tree on the right and say that’s how everyone should do it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/31 "2018-12-17T20:59:27Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Yes. It’s easier to get the pointy end into the ground. Complete mystery to us why anyone else ever does it the other way. Actually that does bring up a question. In Australia (and NZ and other places down there) Christmas comes during the Summer. (still on Dec 25th, for those few clueless). However, in the USA, the Christmas song/carol playlist is about half with tunes that are Winter/seasonal songs, they dont mention Christmas at all- Jingle Bells, Winter Wonderland, etc. Do you guys still play those Winter tunes? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/32 "2018-12-18T07:02:36Z")
Yes, we get all the usual traditional Christmas carols, pop songs and popular Christmas culture. While Australian radio music is something like equal parts US, British and Australian [maybe more like 40%-40%-20%] one thing that has never really taken off is the British Christmas singles, which to my vague knowledge have never really charted. When a really good song comes along relating to the way Australian celebrate Christmas in mid-summer it can be a treat and a pleasure. Tim Minchin has nailed it with [White wine in the sun](https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CeY0VdhXK8), I think. If you’ve got an anthropological interest in how we do it in mid-summer you might also try [A Moody Christmas](https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80062921), a comedy series that gets the setting and family dynamics. Not sure which Netflixes carry it. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/33 "2018-12-18T07:21:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually that does bring up a question. In Australia (and NZ and other places down there) Christmas comes during the Summer. (still on Dec 25th, for those few clueless). However, in the USA, the Christmas song/carol playlist is about half with tunes that are Winter/seasonal songs, they dont mention Christmas at all- Jingle Bells, Winter Wonderland, etc. > > Do you guys still play those Winter tunes? Yes, we do. But there are also a few distinctively Australian Christmas songs that mention summer, kangaroos and other local identifiers - _Six White Boomers_ leaps at once to mind (and then won’t go away). And there is a rewritten set of lyrics to _Jingle Bells_ with Australian references called, with a depressing lack of imagination, _Aussie Jingle Bells_. For the love of God, resist the temptation to find this on YouTube. In general, the Australian Christmas songs are every bit as awful as their northern hemisphere counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/34 "2018-12-18T15:55:35Z")
\ Last night I went to a small gathering of oldies like me. As people departed, I heard a good many “Happy’s” and I was the only “Merry” that I heard. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/35 "2018-12-18T18:28:14Z")
I got the habit of saying “Happy Christmas” from my Grandfather, and always kept doing it first from habit, and then because it made me feel close to him. But nowadays, I must admit to a bit of schadenfreude as I watch the faces of rightwingers gleefully girding themselves for a fight at the word “Happy” and then confusedly winding down when the “Christmas” comes. Their disappointment is palpable, and tells me a lot about their character. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/36 "2018-12-18T18:43:58Z")
It should be Merry Christmas everywhere. I mean, come on, when else do you get to break out the world “Merry?” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/37 "2018-12-18T20:52:00Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > But nowadays, I must admit to a bit of schadenfreude as I watch the faces of rightwingers gleefully girding themselves for a fight at the word “Happy” and then confusedly winding down when the “Christmas” comes. Their disappointment is palpable, and tells me a lot about their character. I have never, ever seen anyone \*\*IRL \*\*unhappy about Happy Holidays. I think that is 99% a internet meme. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/38 "2018-12-18T21:40:59Z")
Anecdotally, my family lived in England (North Yorkshire) from '83 to '85 and all of the locals we knew said “Happy Christmas.” Only the other American ex-pats said “merry.” So I’m among those surprised to learn that “Merry Christmas” has always been fairly common over there…even though I _also_ distinctly remember seeing Wizzard perform “I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday” on _Top of the Pops_ in 1984\*, and that song uses “Merry Christmas.” :smack: \*Wikipedia notes that it was a “[Re-entry of re-issue with 12" re-recording](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wish_It_Could_Be_Christmas_Everyday)” that year. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/39 "2018-12-18T21:47:42Z")
To be honest, this American doesn’t remember hearing “Happy Christmas” until the Harry Potter movies came out. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140/40 "2018-12-19T02:52:53Z")
I have always been amused that “happy” is associated with Britain, where the Scrooge of A Christmas Carol repeats “Merry Christmas” multiple times after awakening without ever saying “Happy Christmas”, while “merry” is associated with the U.S. (or Anglo North America), when the iconic American Christmas literature, A Visit From St. Nicholas, ends "Happy Christmas to all. . . " and includes the word merry only one time–in a reference to Santa’s cheeks. = = = = As to Happy Holidays, I have encountered a couple of grumpy people objecting to the phrase, one bringing one of our cashiers nearly to tears rebuking her for wishing him a happy holiday. It is more likely to come from people with no Christmas spirit such as Hannity or Carlson, but there are a few people who behave that way. Such people are not common, but they do exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-merry-christmas-replacing-happy-christmas-in-britain/826140.md?page=3)