# Is Mexico a failed state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178 "2019-10-23T05:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/61 "2019-11-07T13:34:49Z")
Huge quantities of illegal drugs pour into the USA across the border everyday. Something that has been going on for many years. If your law enforcement is so great, why is this allowed to happen? You cannot controll illegal gun sales. With such unlimited resources, what seems to be the problem? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/62 "2019-11-07T13:55:29Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Huge quantities of illegal drugs pour into the USA across the border everyday. Something that has been going on for many years. If your law enforcement is so great, why is this allowed to happen? You cannot controll illegal gun sales. With such unlimited resources, what seems to be the problem? Those are good questions. US law enforcement does seem to have several issues with corruption and efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/63 "2019-11-07T14:00:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That’s unfortunate, but it’s still pretty early. Sure. These are probably the highest profile murders in Mexico this year, so these might be the exception that actually get solved. Maybe. Still, most of the tens of thousands of murders in Mexico each year go unsolved. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/64 "2019-11-07T14:24:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We say drug cartel for Mexico, and drug gang in the US. It is still part of the same distribution system. The coast guard and border patrol can only also stop a fraction of what’s coming in. By the same reasoning is the US also a failed state? The OPs argument is indeed very incomplete. Those like the OP insisting that Mexico is a failed state are not taking into account how there is a big middle, one where Mexico is located. > **[List of countries by Fragile States Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index)** > > This is a list of countries by order of appearance in the Fragile States Index (formerly the Failed States Index) of the United States think tank Fund for Peace. > A fragile state has several attributes. Common indicators include a state whose central government is so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its territory; non-provision of public services; widespread corruption and criminality; refugees and involuntary movement of populations; and sharp economic declin... Best stable nations: Switzerland Norway Finland Most fragile ones (or \*failed \*as it was the name of the index earlier): Yemen Somalia South Sudan Mexico does get into the warning area, Brazil is in a worst place BTW. And thanks in part also with the corrupting nature of the drug war and Trump’s corrupted view of corruption, the USA is dropping in the index. Being #12 among the most worsening nations regarding the index. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/65 "2019-11-07T15:06:32Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Huge quantities of illegal drugs pour into the USA across the border everyday. Something that has been going on for many years. If your law enforcement is so great, why is this allowed to happen? You cannot controll illegal gun sales. With such unlimited resources, what seems to be the problem? There is not enough time to stop illegal drugs and illegal gun sales because they are focusing on a substantial threat to the National Security of the United States - young children sneaking across the border. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/66 "2019-11-07T15:38:52Z")
> **[List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)** > > The list of countries by UNODC homicide rate is typically expressed in units of deaths per 100,000 individuals per year. A mortality rate of 30 (out of 100,000) in a population of 100,000 would mean 30 deaths per year in that entire population, or 0.03% out of the total. The reliability of underlying national murder rate data may vary. Only UNODC-vetted data is used in the main table below. In some cases it may not be as up to date as other sources. See further down as to why it Research sugges... US Virgin Islands - 49.26/100K inhabitants Mexico - 24.89 Puerto Rico - 18.50 US - 5.30 Canada - 1.80 About 40% of US homicides go unsolved. I can’t find the percentage for Mexico, anyone have that? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/67 "2019-11-07T16:41:22Z")
Unfortunately, your Wikipedia figures are a couple of years out of date, and those couple of years have not been good ones in Mexico: [WSJ - Mexico’s Murder Rate Hit Record High in 2018](https://www.wsj.com/articles/mexicos-murder-rate-hit-record-high-in-2018-11564079972) > [@](#): > > The National Statistics Institute said there were 35,964 murders last year, a 12% increase from 2017. The murder rate rose to 29 per 100,000 inhabitants from 26 the previous year. [BBC - Mexico murder rate rises in first three months of 2019](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48012923) > [@](#): > > The report says 8,493 people were murdered from 1 January to 31 March, a 9.6% rise from the same period in 2018. [Reuters - Murders in Mexico surge to record in first half of 2019](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence/murders-in-mexico-surge-to-record-in-first-half-of-2019-idUSKCN1UG0QS) > [@](#): > > Murders in Mexico jumped in the first half of the year to the highest on record, according to official data, underscoring the vast challenges President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador faces in reducing violence in the cartel-ravaged country. > > There were 14,603 murders from January to June, versus the 13,985 homicides registered in the first six months of 2018, according to data posted over the weekend on the website of Mexico’s national public security office. > > Mexico is on course to surpass the 29,111 murders of last year, an all-time high. [NY Post - Mexico murder rate spirals out of control, hitting 94 killings a day](https://nypost.com/2019/07/05/mexico-murder-rate-spirals-out-of-control-hitting-94-killings-a-day/) > [@](#): > > The news outlet, citing figures from the secretariat of security and citizens protection, noted that June saw the most murders of any month on record, with more than 3,000 people killed. “hugs, not bullets” appears to be failing. Also, the WSJ article above contains the answer to your last question: > [@](#): > > Since Mexico only solves a fraction of murders, the low likelihood of being caught is a problem that grows worse when the overall number of homicides rises, since authorities’ capacity to solve them stays the same, said Alejandro Hope, a security analyst and former member of Mexico’s intelligence services. > > He said only 13% of murders in Mexico end in a suspect coming before a judge, compared with about 66% in the U.S. and 80% in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/68 "2019-11-08T15:56:21Z")
And now, one more can be added to the year’s grim total: [Daily Mail - Shocking moment Mexican police officer who arrested drug lord El Chapo’s son is shot 150 TIMES in brutal broad daylight revenge execution](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7662587/Mexican-police-officer-arrested-El-Chapos-son-assassinated-hail-bullets.html) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/69 "2019-11-08T17:19:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “hugs, not bullets” appears to be failing. Actually you are falling for the right wing sources that still supports the failed war against drugs. It is also an effort to toss the baby with the bathwater, what the President of Mexico and other nations being corrupted by the drug war are concluding is that drugs need to be decriminalized. There is however a good point to be made that the president of Mexico is wrong when there is ALSO an apparent disregard to what the cartels are doing after acts of murder and violence are taking place. However, that is even not the whole history when one sees a lot of the media in the USA ignoring what took place before “hugs not bullets” [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence-sinaloa-factbox/factbox-major-incidents-in-mexicos-drug-wars-idUSKBN1WX2H5](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence-sinaloa-factbox/factbox-major-incidents-in-mexicos-drug-wars-idUSKBN1WX2H5) Point being that “Hugs not bullets” is only one part of one solution, interdiction and arrest of the ones that are not reciprocating is a different part and not the reason for the violence as it is implied here. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/70 "2019-11-08T18:28:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And now, one more can be added to the year’s grim total: [Daily Mail - Shocking moment Mexican police officer who arrested drug lord El Chapo’s son is shot 150 TIMES in brutal broad daylight revenge execution](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7662587/Mexican-police-officer-arrested-El-Chapos-son-assassinated-hail-bullets.html) Yes one more death in the war on drugs. But the headline is completely false. He was not involved in the arrest of el Chapito. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/71 "2019-11-08T19:09:50Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Yes one more death in the war on drugs. But the headline is completely false. He was not involved in the arrest of el Chapito. You may be right, but it’s more than just the headline that’s wrong then. The article starts out: > [@](#): > > The Mexican police officer involved in the arrest of the son of reputed drug lord Joaquin ‘El Chapo’ Guzman has been assassinated in a parking lot. … I have no difficulty believing that the Daily Mail is completely capable of being utterly wrong on that point. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/72 "2019-11-09T21:27:36Z")
Given its miserable third-world socioeconomic status, is Alabama a failed state? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178/73 "2019-11-09T22:56:32Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Given its miserable third-world socioeconomic status, is Alabama a failed state? Alabama’s per-capita GDP = $37,261 Mexico’s per-capita GDP = $8,902 So, Mexico’s about four times the failed state that Alabama is, if we’re basing the assessment off socioeconomic status. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-a-failed-state/842178.md?page=3)