# Is Mexico ISIS farm league? Or maybe the other way around? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055 "2014-11-08T12:49:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/61 "2014-11-10T23:51:39Z")
Both the mayor and his wife have ties with the dominant drug cartel in Guerrero, as do the local police. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/62 "2014-11-11T02:31:01Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Apparently you are mistaken. > > And is the OP accusing the mayor of being ISIS, the mobsters or the students? I think you’re giving the OP a little too much credit if you think he was trying to make a rational point. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/63 "2014-11-11T06:02:35Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Is it not fair enough to say both ISIS and the Mexican drug cartels are employing inhumane tactics against innocent civilians? > > I think, though masquerading behind poor wording, the point of the OP was to highlight our shrill abhorrence at ISIS across the globe, but subdued apathy toward a group doing similarly evil things just across the border. It wasn’t poor wording, though. We knew what he meant. **Der Trihs** was made fun of for not getting it. After that, we were discussing it like normal people. Then **njtt** had to come in and double down on **Der Trihs** ’s stupidity. Then **Crazyhorse** and **Colibri** sorted through the entrails and found this one thing that had the appearance some slight merit, and used it to ridicule the OP. They didn’t get that the entire line of thinking was wrong, based on a complete misunderstanding of what the OP was saying. What the OP was saying is obvious. That’s why so many of us are getting it, and now arguing with those who don’t. I wonder if the reason **Colibri** and **Crazyhorse** aren’t getting it is that they already think that the American attention being paid to this is stupid. **Crazyhorse** blames Americans, acting like they don’t have the right to be upset since it’s our drug money causing it. And **Colibri** thinks we are paying attention due to a sort of “white girl syndrome,” and not because this action, as he admits, is especially brutal. He was not in any way making any meaningful comparison, at least, in the way these guys define that concept. It was a rant about how bad this particular incident is. Everyone in America already instantly knows how bad ISIS is, so using them is quite evocative. None of us thought he was saying that they actually were similar or had anything to do with each other. That was the stupidity of **Der Trihs** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/64 "2014-11-11T06:21:06Z")
In fairness, the idea that a right wing ideologue is confused by the difference between Mexicans and ISIS is not wholly without [precedent](http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/isismexico.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/65 "2014-11-11T06:26:40Z")
This is a nation where millions of people think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Obama is a “secret Muslim” and in league with terrorists because he’s black. So yes, I think it’s rational to wonder if when someone equates ISIS and Mexican drug cartels it’s because of racism, because equating brown and Muslim is a fairly common American behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/66 "2014-11-11T08:01:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It was a rant about how bad this particular incident is. Everyone in America already instantly knows how bad ISIS is, so using them is quite evocative. If the OP was just a rant, or wake up call, or whatever, about the horrific violence in Mexico there would be no need invoke any mention of ISIS at all. If the comparison to ISIS was only intended as an example, like “what they are doing is even worse than ISIS!”, as you seem to think was the case, there would be no need to ask if Mexico was training ISIS members, if ISIS was sending members to Mexico, refer to Mexico as that shithole down south, or ask “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” - these were the only sentiments expressed in the OP. > [@BigT](#): > > I wonder if the reason **Colibri** and **Crazyhorse** aren’t getting it is that they already think that the American attention being paid to this is stupid. I would have hoped that more people in the US were already just as aware of these decades-old problems in Mexico, if not more so, than they are of the relatively recent and comparitively trivial menace that ISIS poses. Any OP that communicated that sentiment in even semi-understandable language would be fine with me. > [@BigT](#): > > **Crazyhorse** blames Americans, acting like they don’t have the right to be upset since it’s our drug money causing it. I don’t act like people in the US don’t have the right to be upset about the violence in Mexico because it is their money that is paying for it. I act like they have no right not to be, and no right to lay the blame on Mexico. Making the statement (or asking the question as it was disguised) “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” is laying the blame squarely on Mexico and 99.99% of their population who are innocent. If 100% of the population of Canada (equal to approximately 10% of the US) was giving a good portion of their income directly to ISIS every day, day after day, for years, the US would have a very serious problem on their hands. And if ISIS was able to use the staggering bankroll they were being handed by Canadians to control entire police forces and local governments within the US I think you might object to Canadians referring to “that shit hole down south” and making “WTF is wrong with you USA?” posts on message boards every time the US was grieving over Canadian-funded mass murders in the US. > [@BigT](#): > > He was not in any way making any meaningful comparison, That is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/67 "2014-11-11T09:00:51Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > If the comparison to ISIS was only intended as an example, like “what they are doing is even worse than ISIS!”, as you seem to think was the case, there would be no need to ask if Mexico was training ISIS members, if ISIS was sending members to Mexico, refer to Mexico as that shithole down south, or ask “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” - these were the only sentiments expressed in the OP. Does ISIS act like the drug cartels or do the drug cartels act like ISIS? It seems like that’s what the thread starter was meaning. > [@](#): > > “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” is laying the blame squarely on Mexico and 99.99% of their population who are innocent. Is that what CubsFan was doing? Maybe CubsFan was referring to the corruption of Mexican government officials and law enforcement, and the glamorized narco culture. But I do agree that we in the US need to stop financing the cartels by purchasing their drugs. Unfortunately we have our own narco/criminal culture that’s glamorized, among many other problems. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/68 "2014-11-11T11:42:56Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > You guys that don’t see close parallels between the terror tactics used by ISIS and what’s been going down in Mexico for the last two decades should be prohibited from accessing anything sharper than 3rd grade safety scissors and should have your drivers license revoked because, well, never mind. No point in explaining. > > Go ahead and read the article linked to up thread. Or get someone to read it to you. > > [Mexican drug cartels are worse than ISIL | Al Jazeera America](http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/10/isil-vs-mexican-drugcartelsunitedstatesislamophobia.html) No, we don’t. All we see is violence used for terror & domination. They did that stuff in Ancient Rome, In Mussolini’s Rome, & the Mafia does it in Rome today. Man’s evil is in no way new. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/69 "2014-11-11T18:11:23Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > No, we don’t. > All we see is violence used for terror & domination. > They did that stuff in Ancient Rome, In Mussolini’s Rome, & the Mafia does it in Rome today. > > Man’s evil is in no way new. You say you don’t see the parallel and then in the very next sentence explain the parallel. Make up your mind. [QUOTE=Crazyhorse] I act like they have no right not to be, and no right to lay the blame on Mexico. Making the statement (or asking the question as it was disguised) “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” is laying the blame squarely on Mexico and 99.99% of their population who are innocent. [/QUOTE] Let me break it down for you since you still don’t get it. The Mexican government, at multiple levels, directly called for and caused the slaughter of those students. The Mexican drug cartel/gang members etc… carried out the massacre (well, after the Mexican police killed a few themselves before turning them over to the gang). That sounds like a pretty serious case of “What the fuck Mexico?” to me. I’m sorry that I didn’t specifically state “Except for the innocent citizens of Mexico of course.”. I didn’t realize so many dipshits were going to white knight for them in this pretty straightforward thread. [QUOTE=DT] So yes, I think it’s rational to wonder if when someone equates ISIS and Mexican drug cartels it’s because of racism, because equating brown and Muslim is a fairly common American behavior. [/QUOTE] If you think equating the identical actions of these two groups is the same as saying that Mexicans are Muslim there is no hope for you. And you’re sorely mistaken if you think Americans equate brown to Muslim. That’s just fucking stupid. There’s been brown folks around these parts for decades before Muslims really became a “thing” for us. And, from what I’ve seen, only a fraction of the Muslims in the world are even brown. I don’t think ANY of the ISIS Muslims are brown. Seems any shade other than White American Male is lumped in as Brown. Fucking racist prick. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/70 "2014-11-11T21:33:24Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I would have hoped that more people in the US were already just as aware of these decades-old problems in Mexico, if not more so, than they are of the relatively recent and comparitively trivial menace that ISIS poses. My hope got crushed on that one a long time ago. Most of the times I bring up Mexico’s issues people look at me like I’ve just said space aliens invaded three months ago and have been gradually conquering the planet to use humans as food. I had a friend who was smart, educated, in a professional job and generally paid attention to the major news stories who brought up a possible trip to Mexico. This was a timeframe closer to the end of the US involvement in Iraq. My response was along the lines of Iraq being more stable and less violent. The reaction… well I might as well have said there were human eating space aliens at her proposed vacation site. Maybe the lone bright side of this tragedy is the chance of some broader attention being paid to the issues in Mexico. I’m not holding my breath though. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/71 "2014-11-12T02:25:06Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > No, we don’t. > All we see is violence used for terror & domination. > They did that stuff in Ancient Rome, In Mussolini’s Rome, & the Mafia does it in Rome today. > > Man’s evil is in no way new. In _Rome_? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/72 "2014-11-12T02:26:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > In _Rome_? He’s talking about Rome New York. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/73 "2014-11-12T03:09:01Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > No, we don’t. > All we see is violence used for terror & domination. > They did that stuff in Ancient Rome, In Mussolini’s Rome, & the Mafia does it in Rome today. > > Man’s evil is in no way new. Are there really organizations in Italy today that murder buss loads of people, take over towns, and record themselves torturing and beheading their victims in order for it to be disseminated by the media? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/74 "2014-11-13T00:24:14Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Are there really organizations in Italy today that murder buss loads of people, take over towns, and record themselves torturing and beheading their victims in order for it to be disseminated by the media? Not all at the same time, true. However-- The Mafia can & does murder hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people per year. They can, & do control the real political power of large areas of Italy & Sicily. They can, and do, torture, and recording the torture, to use as a threat towards others, has happened. > **[Organized crime in Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_Italy)** > > Criminal organizations have been prevalent in Italy, especially in the southern part of the country, for centuries and have affected the social and economic life of many Italian regions. There are major native mafia-like organizations that are heavily active in Italy. The most powerful of these organizations are the Camorra from Campania, the 'Ndrangheta from Calabria and the Cosa Nostra from Sicily. > In addition to these three long-established organizations, there are also other significantly ... BTW–the recording issue is not covered in the link, and I’m certain that at least a few nitpickers will claim that the whole thing is therefore invalidated. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/75 "2014-11-13T05:17:23Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Not all at the same time, true. > However-- The Mafia can & does murder hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people per year. > They can, & do control the real political power of large areas of Italy & Sicily. > They can, and do, torture, and recording the torture, to use as a threat towards others, has happened. > [Organized crime in Italy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_Italy) > > BTW–the recording issue is not covered in the link, and I’m certain that at least a few nitpickers will claim that the whole thing is therefore invalidated. :smack: So in other words, no. But thanks for the link. I watched a video not too long ago about the murder of Falcone by bomb. Horrible. They seem way more brazen than the LCN here. But in regards to the cartels, isn’t this the second time they murdered a couple bus loads of people? After knowing about the videos of the cartels decapitating men and women, drums of acid for torture, I don’t know how some of these singers can give these singers can make songs giving it up for the leaders like Chapo. Not to mention there’s a huge fan base for the music and culture. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/76 "2014-11-13T13:45:46Z")
Damn, I didn’t know about the acid drum crap so I searched google. First link was a Liveleak purported to show 4 livenude Mexican women being beheaded then melted in a drum of acid. Did NOT watch that thing but holy crap. ISIS, Cartels, random mobs, it’s hard to understand how multiple humans can break so bad that a group of them could do something like that together and at no point does one of them recoil in horror and either run away or start killing the rest of the group. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/77 "2014-11-13T16:21:14Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Not all at the same time, true. > However-- The Mafia can & does murder hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people per year. > They can, & do control the real political power of large areas of Italy & Sicily. > They can, and do, torture, and recording the torture, to use as a threat towards others, has happened. > [Organized crime in Italy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_Italy) > > BTW–the recording issue is not covered in the link, and I’m certain that at least a few nitpickers will claim that the whole thing is therefore invalidated. :smack: I say this with love: You’re kind of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/78 "2014-11-13T17:29:44Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Damn, I didn’t know about the acid drum crap so I searched google. First link was a Liveleak purported to show 4 livenude Mexican women being beheaded then melted in a drum of acid. Did NOT watch that thing but holy crap. > > ISIS, Cartels, random mobs, it’s hard to understand how multiple humans can break so bad that a group of them could do something like that together and at no point does one of them recoil in horror and either run away or start killing the rest of the group. I’ve only seen the very beginning of a couple of the videos, just to see if the cartels really were doing this. As soon as I saw the people lined up naked I stopped. The set up and the accompanying comments at liveleak were enough. I chose not to view the video of Daniel Perlman’s execution and I didn’t want to watch these. I too was shocked that 1) the cartel members could all go through with this and 2) how they possibly can recruit when it’s almost certain you’re going to end up in a video made by the rival cartel. I then found out some people are forced by the cartels to work for them. “Join or we kill you and your family.” Whether or not they joined voluntarily or not, by that time, sticking around is having only a slightly better chance of not ending up like these poor people on video. It’s almost like a variation of Winston Smith’s torture. Getting people to the point they’ll say “Do it to Julia!” so long as its not done to them. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/79 "2023-09-03T03:40:54Z")
> **[Text messages shed light on cartel murder of 43 students in 2014](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12473587/Guerreros-Unidos-Iguala-student-massacre.html)** > > Newly reported text messages are shedding fresh light on the unsolved cartel massacre of 43 students in Mexico, revealing military and government officials were complicit. **Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues.** > **[Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/02/world/americas/mexico-iguala-students-kidnapping.html)** > > The Mexican police, military officers and others secretly colluded with a cartel that kidnapped 43 students, a case unsolved after nearly a decade. Wiretaps show just how much the authorities helped the cartel behind the mass abduction, and what led... > The cartel’s conversations were intercepted by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in 2014 while investigating the cartel for trafficking drugs into suburban Chicago. Mexico sought the text messages for years, but American officials handed over the 23,000 only last year, in part because of a lingering distrust of the Mexican government, an investigator said. The D.E.A. declined to comment. So the U.S. expects Mexico to help fight America’s drug problem–but the U.S. refused for 8 years to help solve one of the biggest mass murders in Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055/80 "2023-09-03T03:54:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > the U.S. refused for 8 years to help solve one of the biggest mass murders in Mexico? To be fair, I think we can explain four of those years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mexico-isis-farm-league-or-maybe-the-other-way-around/704055.md?page=5)