# Is Michael Gerson Right About Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2012, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665 "2012-09-24T09:42:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/21 "2012-09-24T16:52:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The libertarian wing may be a faction in the Republican party but I don’t think it’s ever going to take over. A bunch of people who are promoting a philosophy of individual self-interest are never going to be able to successfully band together. They can’t compete against the other conservative factions that favor more collective philosophies: the big business faction, the family values faction, or the national security faction - these factions hold together. > > The libertarian faction may attract a crowd. But every member of that crowd is thinking about what the movement can do for them rather than what they can do for the movement. The GOP today seems to combine the economically vicious parts of libertarianism and none of the more reasonable rights parts (like Randian support for abortion rights) and the socially vicious parts of the religious fanatics - the bishops anti-abortion and reproductive rights stance with none of their support for the poor stance. Ryan is a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/22 "2012-09-24T17:05:46Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > In that case, the only middle-class people left would be the guards. That’s not a happy world. Why? Because people will still reproduce, whether or not they’re poor. They’ll farm, they’ll hunt, they’ll survive. They will survive…unless the upper class has the political will to exterminate the poor violently. The rich rely on the poor to do what needs to be done cheaply. When they exterminate the poor, the rich will need to do their own laundry, cook their own meals, and clean their own toilets. The rich need the poor much more than the converse. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/23 "2012-09-24T18:06:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The GOP today seems to combine the economically vicious parts of libertarianism and none of the more reasonable rights parts (like Randian support for abortion rights) and the socially vicious parts of the religious fanatics - the bishops anti-abortion and reproductive rights stance with none of their support for the poor stance. Ryan is a perfect example. I think what we’re seeing is the big business faction - which is organized - co-opting the disorganized libertarians. The business guys point out to the libertarians that they have similar views on deregulation (even if their philosophies for reaching this position differ) so the libertarians should vote with the business guys. But it’s the business agenda not the libertarian agenda that’s being advanced. On issues where they differ - like government spending - it’s business interests not libertarian interests that’ll carry the day. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/24 "2012-09-24T18:07:57Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > The rich rely on the poor to do what needs to be done cheaply. When they exterminate the poor, the rich will need to do their own laundry, cook their own meals, and clean their own toilets. The rich need the poor much more than the converse. That’s why I favor a constitutional amendment banning robots. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/25 "2012-09-24T18:57:16Z")
The notion that party leaders shape the content of their political coalition has things exactly backwards. The GOP will promote the issues that effectively mobilize enough of the right-side of the electorate to win elections, just as the Democrats do on the left-side. Right now, that moves the GOP toward libertarianism because they’ve lost or been fought to a standstill on Conservative social issues (gay rights, capital punishment, overturning Roe v. Wade, school prayer, intelligent design, sex ed, contraception, etc.) but largely won battles on libertarian social positions (gun rights, affirmative action, school choice, ). The GOP’s economic policy has been essentially libertarian for a while now–i.e., cut taxes, get rid of regulations, and especially toss those regulations that limit fossil fuel development. And foreign policy has largely returned to it’s historical status as non-partisan. On any particular issue, Iran, Afghanistan, China, etc., Romney basically agrees with Obama’s actual policies, notwithstanding the various pathos-based appeals he’s trying to make. The future of the party is easy to predict. Either low taxes and cheap gas and guns is a winning message, or the GOP will figure out a way to take a significant chunk out of the Democratic coalition by co-opting an issue the way the Democrats co-opted crime, free trade, and most recently, anti-terror policies. Education policy seems ripe for the picking. Immigration coulda been, though it seems like Obama might retain that one. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/26 "2012-09-24T19:49:42Z")
Education policy would be a key issue to grab, but the Republicans seem to think education is evil and not something to embrace. Anything more than “Learn what your parents want you to learn and no more” is anathema to them. Not really a winning way to address the issue, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/27 "2012-09-24T19:54:04Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [Michael Gerson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gerson) (President George W. Bush’s chief speechwriter from 2001 until June 2006, a senior policy advisor from 2000 through June 2006, and was a member of the White House Iraq Group) has some harsh language for modern Republicans, mainly to the theme of “Stop sidling up to the libertarians and grow some compassion for the less fortunate.” Yes, well, unfortunately, that’s a problem too, because the last Administration left the phrase/concept of “compassionate conservatism” in rather bad odor, just like it left everything else it touched. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/28 "2012-09-24T20:00:09Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > The compassionate conservative agenda driven by the social conservative evangelicals such as Huckabee is what destroyed the GOP in the 2000s. > > It is what led to No Child Left Behind, the Medicare prescription-drug benefit, runaway spending, amnesty for illegal aliens and TARP. > > It resulted GOP defeats of 2006 and 2008. Actually, it was the Iraq War, GWOT, etc., that destroyed the GOP in the 2000s. > [@moonshot925](#): > > And why why does one have to add the adjective “compassinate” to conservatism? Limited government is compassionate. Any state that has a huge amount of control over its people’s incomes and which doles out spending on social programs to take care of people ends up being a tyranny. There is no statist government in history that was ever compassionate. In real life, however, all of that is manifestly not true of the social democracies of Europe; and some of them have actual Communists in their parliaments. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/29 "2012-09-24T20:02:10Z")
> [@Oedipus](#): > > Can we clarify though? I feel that liberal (true) libertarians shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentance as Randians who claim libertarianism just so they can have a more conservative ruling on social issues and keep more tax dollars to themselves. [Well, that’s a touchy point, there](http://leftycartoons.com/the-24-types-of-libertarian/) . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/30 "2012-09-24T20:04:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > My guess is that for every person who has actually read Ayn Rand, there are about three that swear allegiance to her philosophy and drop her name just to appear intellectual. Likewise with Karl Marx, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/31 "2012-09-24T20:05:18Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Anyway, I think he is wrong, the party needs to be more libertarian, not less. The Libertarian Party already exists – why do we need two? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/32 "2012-09-24T20:07:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think what we’re seeing is the big business faction - which is organized - co-opting . . . . . . practically everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/33 "2012-09-24T20:18:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think what we’re seeing is the big business faction - which is organized - co-opting the disorganized libertarians. The business guys point out to the libertarians that they have similar views on deregulation (even if their philosophies for reaching this position differ) so the libertarians should vote with the business guys. But it’s the business agenda not the libertarian agenda that’s being advanced. On issues where they differ - like government spending - it’s business interests not libertarian interests that’ll carry the day. That’s a reasonable view of who does control things. They co-opt the Christians for the same reason they co-opt the libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/34 "2012-09-24T20:19:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Likewise with Karl Marx, of course. Yeah, but the characters in _Das Kapital_ were more realistic. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/35 "2012-09-24T23:28:35Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > The rich rely on the poor to do what needs to be done cheaply. When they exterminate the poor, the rich will need to do their own laundry, cook their own meals, and clean their own toilets. The rich need the poor much more than the converse. The rich depend on the poor to do what can be done cheaply, but they rely on everybody else to do literally every other thing that needs to be done. The genius of the libertarian strain is that it convinces people that it’s everybody else who needs the rich, rather than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/36 "2012-09-24T23:43:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Libertarian Party already exists – why do we need two? Well they need those compassionate conservatives he wants to exclude to get into office in the first place. If they were just an alliance of libertarians they’d be just like the actual Libertarian Party, unelectable. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/37 "2012-09-25T00:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **moonshot925** : > > And why why does one have to add the adjective “compassinate” to conservatism? To distinguish it from the all-too-common form of conservative who rails out vehemently against any form of compassion. Like, I dunno… Hm, can anyone give me some examples, here? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/38 "2012-09-25T00:33:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To distinguish it from the all-too-common form of conservative who rails out vehemently against any form of compassion. Like, I dunno… Hm, can anyone give me some examples, here? Rush, Savage, Beck, pretty much the whole of RW talk radio . . . ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/39 "2012-09-25T00:55:56Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > The rich rely on the poor to do what needs to be done cheaply. When they exterminate the poor, the rich will need to do their own laundry, cook their own meals, and clean their own toilets. The rich need the poor much more than the converse. Do they realize that? [That’s the question.](http://www.angryflower.com/atlass.gif) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665/40 "2012-09-25T01:13:05Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Anyway, I think he is wrong, the party needs to be more libertarian, not less. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I agree completely. > > And the sooner the better. I agree with this. The sooner the Republican Party becomes a fringe organization the better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-michael-gerson-right-about-republicans/635665.md?page=3)