# Is military action against Iran an inevitability? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2011, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726 "2011-11-03T09:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/81 "2011-11-09T02:47:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Remember the first Gulf War? When we were blowing up Saddam’s tanks and APCs, were we blowing up American built weapons, or Soviet built weapons? Some of each? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/82 "2011-11-09T02:49:42Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Well yes, but nothing from the Democrats or news media. I’m not sure what your point is, but here are nearly 300 stories between April 2003 and October 2004 collected and re-publicized by Democrats regarding the lack of WMDs. > **[Democrats.com Archive: Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction](http://archive.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=Iraq%20Weapons%20of%20Mass%20Destruction)** > > Democrats.com offers independent > newsletters, discussion, and activism for Democratic voters and candidates > who want political change. We also sell campaign web sites, contribution > processing, and other Internet services. Regardless who acknowledged the lies: - there never were WMDs in Iraq at the time of the invasion; - the Bush administration knew that there were few or no WMDs at the time they ordered the invasion under the pretense of preventing the use of the nonexistent WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/83 "2011-11-09T02:51:27Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > just wondering if it is ok for mods to hijack threads these days? If you have this sort of “question,” take it up in ATMB rather than attempting your own hijack with an off-topic “question.” [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/84 "2011-11-09T04:07:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Besides if Israel was stupid enough to bomb them that would simply make life much more difficult for the Jews living in Iran and strengthen the power of the hardliners. Well, it’s not like Israel has refrained from boming places where Jews are known to reside. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/85 "2011-11-09T04:25:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Well, it’s not like Israel has refrained from boming places where Jews are known to reside. Iran doesn’t drop bombs on Iranian Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/86 "2011-11-09T04:26:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I didn’t say Iraq was America’s puppet, and I don’t believe it was. But the US did arm it, provide it with military supplies and intelligence, and enrich Saddam in the process. What are you talking about? He was already dramatically enriched. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/87 "2011-11-09T04:44:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Iran doesn’t drop bombs on Iranian Jews. I’ve read that Iran is the most safe place aside from Israel for Jews to live in the Middle East. But then, that may not be saying much, what with wanting to “wipe Israel off the map” and all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/88 "2011-11-09T05:05:07Z")
Are there any really persecuted minorities in Iran these days? Serious question. I’m sure some religions are still banned – Baha’i? I note that on [this map,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_freedom#Contemporary_global_overview) Iran is bad on the religious-freedom index, but Saudi Arabia is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/89 "2011-11-09T05:23:26Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > It seems to me everybody has forgotten how little dissent there was from the belief Hussein was working on atomic weapons and other WMD. It wasn’t just Bush and the neo cons. How much blame Bush deserves for bad intelligence is questionable. But he can hardly be blamed for **France** , Germany, and Israel’s miscalculation. I was around then and nobody questions the existence of WMD before the war. . I wouldn’t know about Israel or Germany, but I remember quite well what was the opinion of the French administration about this topic. It was that at worst Iraq still might have old gas ammunitions and that the Iraqi army was in such a shape that it couldn’t be a threat to any of its neighbours (which turned out to be almost correct. In fact, they didn’t even have usable mustard gas ammunitions). The only countries pushing hard the “WMD” line I can remember were the USA and the UK. Remember also that extensive searches (going to the humiliating point of an allowed search of the presidential palace, IIRC) turned absolutely nothing. It was no secret when the war began that there was no evidence at all of WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/90 "2011-11-09T06:42:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Iran doesn’t drop bombs on Iranian Jews. I should’ve said ‘warred with states where Jews reside’ or some such. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/91 "2011-11-09T19:53:13Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I wouldn’t know about Israel or Germany, but I remember quite well what was the opinion of the French administration about this topic. What’s the official French opinion about Iran now? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/92 "2011-11-15T00:57:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are there any really persecuted minorities in Iran these days? Serious question. I’m sure some religions are still banned – Baha’i? That’s a very fair question. It depends on what you mean by “minorities” and what you mean by “persecuted.” There is a certain amount of discrimination against non-Persians, but it shouldn’t be too overemphasized, except regarding the Armenians and Assyrians(where the discrimination is due to being Christian not non-Persian). If anything, I’d say non-Persian Muslims have greater equality under the Islamic Revolutionary government than under the Shah. The Ayatollah himself is actually half-Azeri. However, Christians and Jews face considerable amount of discrimination, but I think calling it “persecution” would be a bit too strong. Certainly, I’d rather be an Armenian Christian in Iran than a Shiite in Saudi Arabia(Saudi Arabia does have a small native Shia minority). As for the Bahai, not to nitpick, but they’re not banned since that would involve actually recognizing them. As far as the Iranian government is concerned, they’re “unpersons”. To give you an idea of their dilemma, everyone in Iran has to carry an ID with one of the four recognized religions on it(Muslim, Christian, Jew, Zoroastrian). Any Bahai carrying an ID that says one of those on them(which they have to) is considered guilty of lying about their religion and can be executed. They’re not allowed to have jobs, no contracts they sign(IE buying a house) are considered legal. Married women who are found to be Bahai are considered unmarried and arrested as whores. To top it all off, and to give you an idea why things are really awful, there is no law against killing a Bahai. Anyone can kill a Bahai regardless of the circumstances and get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/93 "2011-11-15T01:09:04Z")
Countries with Nukes Britain France China USA India Pakistan Russia North Korea Israel Used to have South Africa, Khazakstan,Ukraine and Belareus. Would Iran having them make the world more dangerous? The claim is they want them to keep Israel and the US from attacking them. Since we say over and over that we may, it makes sense. Our Repubs in debate made it pretty clear that they have no problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/94 "2011-11-15T01:32:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > To top it all off, and to give you an idea why things are really awful, there is no law against killing a Bahai. > > Anyone can kill a Bahai regardless of the circumstances and get away with it. Surely you exaggerate. What the hell kind of government doesn’t have laws making it a crime to kill a human no matter of their religion? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/95 "2011-11-15T01:36:35Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Would Iran having them make the world more dangerous? The claim is they want them to keep Israel and the US from attacking them. Since we say over and over that we may, it makes sense. Our Repubs in debate made it pretty clear that they have no problem with it. Many people believe that in “wiping Israel off the map” they won’t use a ruby red eraser on paper. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/96 "2011-11-15T02:13:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Surely you exaggerate. What the hell kind of government doesn’t have laws making it a crime to kill a human no matter of their religion? I believe it was the rule in Nazi-occupied Europe, that Jews were considered outlaws and anyone could kill them in the streets. But that wasn’t an instance of **religious** prejudice, really. To the Nazis a baptized Jew remained a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/97 "2011-11-15T02:27:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Surely you exaggerate. What the hell kind of government doesn’t have laws making it a crime to kill a human no matter of their religion? No, I’m not. Iranian law is based on some fairly medieval understandings of Shariah. That’s why the “blood money” a person who murders a woman has to pay the family of the victim is just half what he would pay if the victim was a man. From their POV, the killing of a Bahai is the killing of an unperson, not the killing of a human being. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/98 "2011-11-15T02:33:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I believe it was the rule in Nazi-occupied Europe, that Jews were considered outlaws and anyone could kill them in the streets. Of all the horrible things I’ve read about the Nazis murdering Jews, I’ve not read of their murder by ordinary citizens. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/99 "2011-11-15T02:37:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Of all the horrible things I’ve read about the Nazis murdering Jews, I’ve not read of their murder by ordinary citizens. That’s why I said “I believe.” It’s something I read in _Maus,_ not in an actual history book. The old man recounts how he was actually frightened, after the German conquest of Poland, to be released from the POW camp where he was held. “As prisoners of war we had some protection under international law, but a Jew of the Reich, anyone could kill in the streets!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726/100 "2011-11-15T02:40:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, I’m not. > > Iranian law is based on some fairly medieval understandings of Shariah. > > That’s why the “blood money” a person who murders a woman has to pay the family of the victim is just half what he would pay if the victim was a man. > > From their POV, the killing of a Bahai is the killing of an unperson, not the killing of a human being. So, if I’m arrested for killing a man in the street (as of course I would be), and it turns out he was Baha’i, they’ll just drop the charges and let me go? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-action-against-iran-an-inevitability/601726.md?page=6)