# Is military capable of shooting down RC planes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488 "2012-09-12T09:23:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/21 "2012-09-12T15:07:43Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If a faction used hundreds/thousands of RC planes that cost a few hundred/thousand dollars each, how would a country deal with that? Anti-aircraft artillery could take down the r/c armada, or failing that… Retaliation with Tomahawks. Whatever damage your 100 or 1000 flying hand grenades could do, would be outdone with one or two missile strikes. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Qwertol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertol)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/22 "2012-09-12T15:13:58Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Isn’t that what a cruise missile is? They’ve been around since WWII. Yeah, but missiles move very fast, are still relatively big and produce a lot of heat. These all mean that they are (relatively) easy to detect, you can’t mistake them for anything else, and adding the fact that they usually move in one direction it is possible (hard but possible) to shoot them down. With small plane (or other type of UAV) first you have to identify it as a plane (and not for example a bird), then you have to decide if it is dangerous (not just civilian RC plane) and worth using (expensive) means to take it down. Then there is problem of aiming - small planes are, well small, so they don’t show on radar (or at least not “strongly” enough), they don’t produce much heat so it may be hard for homing missiles to shoot them down. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/23 "2012-09-12T15:15:09Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Isn’t that what a cruise missile is? They’ve been around since WWII. Nitpick, they’ve been around since WWI, but they didn’t work very well back then and so were never used operationally. [The Kettering Bug](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_Bug) [Hewitt-Sperry Automatic Airplane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewitt-Sperry_Automatic_Airplane) ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/24 "2012-09-12T15:15:40Z")
The thousands of people standing around within control range of the thousands of RC drones would make an easy target plus you would have to have a huge number of frequency bands to keep the drones from flying into each other. Realistically, the only use would be in a one or two shot engagement over short range against a single non-hardened target. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/25 "2012-09-12T15:17:48Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > Yeah, but missiles move very fast, are still relatively big and produce a lot of heat. These all mean that they are (relatively) easy to detect, you can’t mistake them for anything else, and adding the fact that they usually move in one direction it is possible (hard but possible) to shoot them down. There’s no particular reason that a missile has to move in only one direction. In fact, from what I understand, many of them will move in various directions, both to pursue a moving target, and to evade enemy air defenses or hit a particularly vulnerable spot. There was a joke about how the Tomahawks during the Gulf War would fly down a city street, stop to wait for the light to change, then turn the corner and continue on to their targets. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/26 "2012-09-12T15:18:53Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > The thousands of people standing around within control range of the thousands of RC drones would make an easy target plus you would have to have a **huge number of frequency bands** to keep the drones from flying into each other. > > Realistically, the only use would be in a one or two shot engagement over short range against a single non-hardened target. D’oh, this problem just got easier. If you know what radio frequency the drones are being controlled with, simply jam the signal and let the drone continue on until it intersects the terrain. Similarly, if you know the frequency, you can find the transmitter (if the drone can pick up the control signal, so can the drone’s target and its defenders, if they are properly equipped). Missiles that can home in on radio transmitters have been in use at least since the Vietnam war, and are a key tool used by SEAD aircrews such as the Air Force’s Wild Weasels. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/27 "2012-09-12T15:22:10Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > The thousands of people standing around within control range of the thousands of RC drones would make an easy target plus you would have to have a huge number of frequency bands to keep the drones from flying into each other. > > Realistically, the only use would be in a one or two shot engagement over short range against a single non-hardened target. There are fairly decent commercially available autopilots for RC planes, costing hundreds not thousands of dollars. They navigate by GPS, and can be programmed with waypoints for altitude and location. They even include telemetry downlinks. You wouldn’t need any radio controls once your RC armada was airborne. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/28 "2012-09-12T15:24:07Z")
In that case, I propose that we encase high-value targets with big mosquito nets to catch any incoming drones. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Qwertol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertol)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/29 "2012-09-12T15:25:02Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > The thousands of people standing around within control range of the thousands of RC drones would make an easy target plus you would have to have a huge number of frequency bands to keep the drones from flying into each other. > > Realistically, the only use would be in a one or two shot engagement over short range against a single non-hardened target. You could preprogram their path of flight or just use some other means to control them - for example cellular communication (fancy but possible). ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/30 "2012-09-12T15:25:51Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > In that case, I propose that we encase high-value targets with big mosquito nets to catch any incoming drones. First wave deals with nets, second wave destroys the peanut butter factories. Third wave profits. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/31 "2012-09-12T15:27:23Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > You could preprogram their path of flight or just use some other means to control them - for example cellular communication (fancy but possible). Cellular communication is trivial. All the necessary components are available off the shelf for less than £200 total. Still easier to use an autopilot though. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/32 "2012-09-12T17:19:02Z")
Bah, scooped. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/33 "2012-09-12T21:38:20Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Why don’t we build these things with a remote self-destruct function? In the case of the Iranians, instead of boning up on the latest UAV technology, they’d have a pile of scorched scrap metal instead. The amount of explosive needed to fully destoy the vehicle cuts into the working payload that can be carried. Also, that explosive makes it much more dangerous at landing, to handle the vehicle, storing them in hangers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/34 "2012-09-12T21:54:31Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > Firstly that drone isn’t really that small. It is 26 m wide and probably weights a couple of tonnes. Secondly it wasn’t shot down. It was pretty much hacked (well not really, they didn’t directly take control of it, they made it land in Iran using trick involving GPS jamming, you can find more details over the Internet). According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_RQ-170_Sentinel): > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li] **Length:** 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)[/li][li] **Wingspan:** 12 m (39 ft 4 in) estimated[/li][li] **Height:** 2 m (6 ft) estimated[/li][/ul] We have been _told_ the Iranians brought it down. The Iranians _claim_ they brought it down. The US Government made all the official moves asking the drone be returned. The Iranians stated the drone now belongs to them and will not be returned. Anything beyond that is speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/35 "2012-09-12T22:01:07Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_RQ-170_Sentinel): > We have been _told_ the Iranians brought it down. The Iranians _claim_ they brought it down. The US Government made all the official moves asking the drone be returned. The Iranians stated the drone now belongs to them and will not be returned. Anything beyond that is speculation. Do you remember the US spy plane that went down in China in, I think, 2000-2001? The crew had to destroy the sensitive material and systems before they were taken into custody. I am fairly certain they did it with hand tools. The Chinese wouldn’t give the plane back either. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/36 "2012-09-13T01:28:38Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Do you remember the US spy plane that went down in China in, I think, 2000-2001? > > The crew had to destroy the sensitive material and systems before they were taken into custody. I am fairly certain they did it with hand tools. > > The Chinese wouldn’t give the plane back either. > **[Hainan Island incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)** > > George W. Bush > Jiang Zemin > The Hainan Island incident was a ten-day international incident between the United States and the People's Republic of China (PRC) that resulted from a mid-air collision between a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals intelligence aircraft and a Chinese Air Force J-8 interceptor on April 1, 2001. The did return it, eventually. In pieces. Apparently not all of the pieces were returned. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/37 "2012-09-13T11:17:44Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > The obvious answer is that fail-deadly explosive or thermal charges make ground maintenance crews a touch nervous. From what I understand, they can be twitchy enough about the ejection seats (misfires from those things have killed at least a few maintenance technicians throughout history). Of course, they also have crews who handle load and unload warheads with thousands of pounds of high explosives (these are not the same guys who check the fluids and troubleshoot the radio systems, of course). > > Otherwise, they probably just figured it wasn’t worth the trouble, as with any other “Why don’t they…” situation. You don’t need explosives to self destruct. Military avionics have the capability to slag the memory on command, and all you need to destroy a vehicle is the nearest terrain. 0.5mv[sup]2[/sup] will do the job nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/38 "2012-09-13T11:52:31Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Why don’t we build these things with a remote self-destruct function? In the case of the Iranians, instead of boning up on the latest UAV technology, they’d have a pile of scorched scrap metal instead. Self-destruct ain’t free. As noted, it increases aquisition cost, reduces payload capacity, increases fuel consumption, and requires maintenance and special handling. The only reason you’d want to invest resources in a self-destruct feature is if the aircraft contains classified technology or data. Examples include an aircraft with stealth techology, or a reconnaissance aircraft that may have aerial photos (or imaging technology) you don’t want the enemy to know you have. If it’s a stealthless flying bomb, you may as well leave the self-destruct out of the design and max out the size of the warhead. ---
**Author:** ![AdamF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/adamf/32/6246_2.png) [@AdamF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdamF)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/39 "2012-09-13T12:21:15Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > Do modern armies possess means to effectively take down RC planes or very small (say max. 1 meter wide) UAVs that (at least theoretically) could pose a threat? They can take it down for sure. There is a number of systems designed to shoot down artillery and mortar shells, which should work just fine for RC planes. While most use auto-cannons, lasers also look promising. > **[C-RAM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-RAM)** > > Counter rocket, artillery, and mortar, abbreviated C-RAM or counter-RAM, is a set of systems used to detect and/or destroy incoming rockets, artillery, and mortars before they hit their targets, or provide early warning. > The 20mm Land-Based Phalanx Weapon System (also called Centurion C-RAM) is a land-based variant of the U.S. Navy's Phalanx close-in weapon system, a radar-controlled rapid-fire gun for close-in protection of vessels from missiles. Both use a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) cam... > **[404 Error Page](https://www.raytheon.com/404)** The problem will be with detection. Small RC plane wouldn’t show up on IR camera and probably won’t have much of radar signature. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/40 "2012-09-13T12:24:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The “noisy missile” they fire is a Hellfire. It travels at Mach 1.3 and can be fired from 10 km away. So all that noise gets to you after you are dead. And yes it uses a shaped charge. of course true. I wasn’t trying to say that the current missiles are ineffective or deficient in some way. In fact, I wonder why the military is investigating small AVs with explosives. I don’t see the problem this solution is trying to solve. But they are working on it. DoD researches many things. Perhaps this will never get past the “interesting” stage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488.md?page=3)