# Is military capable of shooting down RC planes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488 "2012-09-12T09:23:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/41 "2012-09-13T13:29:36Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > You don’t need explosives to self destruct. Military avionics have the capability to slag the memory on command, and all you need to destroy a vehicle is the nearest terrain. 0.5mv[sup]2[/sup] will do the job nicely. I’ll pass this on to higher headquaters. Seriously, crash something you have no control over (operative words “no control”)? The drone/aircraft/satelite launch vehicle that may contain hundreds/thousands/hundreds of thousands of pounds of explosives and volitile chemicals; just somehow crash it into the ground away from populous areas, reviewing stands, our own soldiers. YOU HAVE LOST CONTROL (sorry for shouting). Your memory program is either dead or the control surfaces and/or actuation systems have been damaged or destroyed. Self-destruct is incorporated to immediately terminate a launched vehicle as soon as you lose control. The launch / approach / test area has been chosen to lessen the above problems. There will always be recoverable stuff. Best to blow it up **then** crash it into the ground - smaller bits. Why it’s not always incorporated? Covered in previous comments above. > [@rbroome](#): > > of course true. > > I wasn’t trying to say that the current missiles are ineffective or deficient in some way. In fact, I wonder why the military is investigating small AVs with explosives. I don’t see the problem this solution is trying to solve. But they are working on it. DoD researches many things. Perhaps this will never get past the “interesting” stage. You ordinarily don’t send a 1000lb warhead/bomb to take out an individual or small group in a crowded environment. Depending on the tactical situation and target you want lots of options. Open troops or concentration of light vehicles - we can send anti-personel or combo high explosive/shape charge munitions by rocket/missile/bomb. Destroy an entire compound - how much time do you have? Send a cruise missile with a large unitary warhead, multi-sonic missile with a 1000lb -er; dumb bomb 5000/2000/1000/500/250/100 depending on size crater - bomb could be free fall, inertial guided with tail fins, inertial/GPS, laser, TV, etc… Maybe only part of a compound (single building) - small guided bomb with precision guidance, missile with smaller warhead (options vary from 1000lb down to 15lb) with various guidance systems, guided projectile or mortar round. Maybe just a corner of a building, and individual /small group, or fly in a particular window/opening - Hellfire/TOW if close enough/Javelin missiles, small guided bomb (\<10lb warhead), guided projectiles. Take out a moving vehicle - Hellfire or other missile using laser/milimeter wave radar/TV/lock-on IR. What’s the target [personnel, vehicles, bunker, armor]? How much time to get there / distance? Size of target? Colateral damage control? Is it moving? What do you have available - aircraft already in area (F-15/B1B, B-52, etc…) / missile batteries / artillery support / close in troops with short range missiles / cruise missles on aircraft/ships/subs. The situation varies constantly and is extremely time dependant - options. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/42 "2012-09-13T13:50:27Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > I’ll pass this on to higher headquaters. Which is? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Seriously, crash something you have no control over (operative words “no control”)? The drone/aircraft/satelite launch vehicle that may contain hundreds/thousands/hundreds of thousands of pounds of explosives and volitile chemicals; just somehow crash it into the ground away from populous areas, reviewing stands, our own soldiers. YOU HAVE LOST CONTROL (sorry for shouting). Your memory program is either dead or the control surfaces and/or actuation systems have been damaged or destroyed. Self-destruct is incorporated to immediately terminate a launched vehicle as soon as you lose control. The launch / approach / test area has been chosen to lessen the above problems. > > There will always be recoverable stuff. Best to blow it up **then** crash it into the ground - smaller bits. Why it’s not always incorporated? Covered in previous comments above. A loss of control does not equate to a loss of communication, and vice versa. UAVs fly semi-autonomously, and can be following programmed flight for a large portion of of time that communications are down. After a timeout, they return home on their own. If they cannot establish comms with the landing system, they wave off to a programmed location to crash. The operator has the option to destroy the aircraft at any time, and as long as there is a working command link, it will happen. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/43 "2012-09-13T15:03:01Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > You don’t need explosives to self destruct. Military avionics have the capability to slag the memory on command, and all you need to destroy a vehicle is the nearest terrain. 0.5mv[sup]2[/sup] will do the job nicely. This sounds promising. I wonder if our drones have the capability to render their own electronics useless/indecipherable upon command, without explosives. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/44 "2012-09-13T15:18:51Z")
[Animal rights group says drone shot down](http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html) Also here [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/daniel-zimmerman/shark-loses-drone-over-south-carolina/](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/daniel-zimmerman/shark-loses-drone-over-south-carolina/) If hunters can take them out with shotgun I imagine the military can also take them down if necessary. Video of shoot-down has apparently been removed. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/45 "2012-09-13T15:36:09Z")
It’s not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they’re not much bigger than two meters. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/46 "2012-09-13T16:59:38Z")
The US and other militaries have the capability to shoot down drones with lasers. [This video](http://www.fastcompany.com/1823017/darpa-unveils-drone-slaying-war-laser) shows them using the technology to shoot down incoming mortars. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/47 "2012-09-13T17:29:20Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Which is? :dubious: > > A loss of control does not equate to a loss of communication, and vice versa. UAVs fly semi-autonomously, and can be following programmed flight for a large portion of of time that communications are down. After a timeout, they return home on their own. If they cannot establish comms with the landing system, they wave off to a programmed location to crash. > > The operator has the option to destroy the aircraft at any time, and as long as there is a working command link, it will happen. Which is? [checks calendar] 33 years with Dept of Army and Dept of Defense working ammunition and explosives. Working command link? You must have missed my point about damaged control surfaces and actuation systems. You can command all you want but a drone, missile or other airframe which has lost hydraulics, pneumatics, suffered damage to or lost an aerodynamic structure, had catastrophic nozzle failure, ruptured the motor, or another suffered a half dozen other problems - isn’t going to respond. So you either blow it up or it suffers an uncontrolled decent impacting who knows what. Back on point. Drones weigh anywhere from a dozen pounds up to 10,000lb+. Building in an explosive or other self-destruct mechanism costs money, adds complexity, is subject to failure (either positive or negative), and adds unwanted safety problems. Only the largest drones, think Predator, Reaper and other similar, have autonomus features. They may go into a holding pattern for a period with loss of satellite downlink then return to base if not reconnected. Hopefully the ground crew will establish a link for recovery. It would be impossible [really heavy burden] to program in **suitable crash sites for every step of a mission which can cover thousands of miles each and every time you launch.** That particular drone may cover a completely different area/country on its next flight. When a drone loses it (commo, propulsion, control surface, actuator, … problem), they crash. They don’t make it back to base. There is no way to direct it to a designated area. Every time one crashes, we (DOD, NSA, DEA, other spooks) expend lots of time and effort to find (not trivial) and recover the bits and pieces. They are reallly hard to find in typical terrain in theater. Telling it to go to the designated “drone graveyard” would be nice but it doesn’t happen in real life. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/48 "2012-09-13T17:41:47Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Working command link? You must have missed my point about damaged control surfaces and actuation systems. You can command all you want but a drone, missile or other airframe which has lost hydraulics, pneumatics, suffered damage to or lost an aerodynamic structure, had catastrophic nozzle failure, ruptured the motor, or another suffered a half dozen other problems - isn’t going to respond. **So you either blow it up or it suffers an uncontrolled decent impacting who knows what**. And you just made my point. Uncontrolled impact is the method mine uses for self destruct. It would be nice if it happens in an unpopulated area, but combatants don’t give a rat’s ass about shooting anything down over a populated area anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/49 "2012-09-13T21:34:52Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > D’oh, this problem just got easier. If you know what radio frequency the drones are being controlled with, simply jam the signal and let the drone continue on until it intersects the terrain. Similarly, if you know the frequency, you can find the transmitter (if the drone can pick up the control signal, so can the drone’s target and its defenders, if they are properly equipped). Missiles that can home in on radio transmitters have been in use at least since the Vietnam war, and are a key tool used by SEAD aircrews such as the Air Force’s Wild Weasels. It’s probably worth noting that a jammer is a transmitter. It is also worth noting that anyone who uses equipment that is vulnerable to jamming, gets really upset with jammers and uses a number of measures to dissuade the practice. One such measure is the old Vietnam-era technology you mentioned. More common, of course, it triangulating the position of the offending device (takes about 5 seconds if you’re paying attention) and blowing up the 1 square kilometer in its general area. Jamming is an awesome tool, but it ain’t free. Lastly, Some transmitting equipment, even radio, is directional. If the controller is pointing north at the drone and you’re not in the cone described by the transmission, you hear nothing, and so you don’t know that there is something to jam, let alone what direction to jam in (because, for reasons alluded to above, jammers are typically directional transmitters); and knowing where the controller is doesn’t do you much good (unless you have access to artillery) because you want to point your jam at the drone. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488/50 "2012-09-14T13:38:23Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > And you just made my point. Uncontrolled impact is the method mine uses for self destruct. It would be nice if it happens in an unpopulated area, but combatants don’t give a rat’s ass about shooting anything down over a populated area anyway. “…combatants don’t give a rat’s ass …” Not this combatant (US military). Without going into details (classified shit again) **we most certainly do avoid shooting down / intercepting incoming mortars/rockets over populated areas**. And yes, I put that in bold so readers don’t not miss it. Also, manned and unmanned aircraft dump ordnance at specific relatively safe locations if recovery of the aircraft will jeopardize crew or personnel on the ground. Your point was using autonomous guidance as trivial method to insure destruction of airframes in non-populous areas. My point was that the autonomous systems don’t work in many cases, can’t cover the thousands of miles covered by the large drones on a single mission and they don’t guarantee destruction. Hence the effort, time and expense to go out and recover remains. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-military-capable-of-shooting-down-rc-planes/634488.md?page=2)