# Is Minneapolis a good place to flee Portland to? (Warning: a rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075 "2015-04-19T23:29:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/21 "2015-04-20T02:12:05Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > There is really no way, I’ve decided, to improve my situation without leaving Portland altogether, and really the whole West sounds just as bad if not worse. I can’t just “work harder” and “make sacrifices” and thrive in this city, I already live the most bare bones and uncomfortable lifestyle I can without being homeless like so many people. And there is no work for me here. > … > I just want to be able to live in a city where eking out a decent living is possible, and the people aren’t ignorant (this excludes places like Indiana and Kansas, no offense to any nice people who live there but their war on the poor is disgusting). Here’s my best and most honest advice: move to Fargo, North Dakota. Here are the advantages: [ul] [li]North Dakota’s unemployment rate is the lowest in the country. Every business has a “now-hiring” sign out front, from fast food restaurants to banks to software companies. Whatever your skill set is, you can find a job here.[/li][li]Housing is affordable. There are numerous apartment buildings renting 1- and 2-bedroom units in the area of $800 / month. Houses are relatively cheap too, if you’re looking to buy in the future.[/li][li]Crime is low. Streets are safe. There is no ghetto and no place you wouldn’t feel okay walking any time of the day or night.[/li][li]There is a decent bus system.[/li][li]There are many parks. Also many bike paths.[/li][li]The city is well-maintained. Streets and sidewalks are in excellent shape. Streetlights are never out. The libraries are excellent.[/li][li]The city government is excellent; no corruption.[/li][li]Taxes are very low.[/li][li]People are abnormally nice here. Really. [Whole books](http://www.amazon.com/Close-Encounters-Fargo-Kind-Celle/dp/0983092834/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429495231&sr=8-1&keywords=Close+Encounters+of+the+Fargo+Kind) have been written about this matter.[/li][/ul] Disadvantages: [ul] [li]Opportunities for shopping and dining aren’t great, though they are improving. We have a big shopping mall and a decent slate of restaurants, but if you want to spend $50 on the latest French-Tibetan fusion cuisine, you’ll have to go elsewhere.[/li][li]Flying in and out tends to be expensive; the airport is very small.[/li][li]And yes, the winter weather is a tad unpleasant at times.[/li][/ul] Here are some resources if you’re interested: A job site for Fargo: [http://www.betterfargojobs.com/](http://www.betterfargojobs.com/) Another one: [http://gfmedc.com/careers/jobs/](http://gfmedc.com/careers/jobs/) A site about living in Fargo: [http://gfmedc.com/living/](http://gfmedc.com/living/) If you’d like to PM me with any specific questions, I’d be happy to answer them. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/22 "2015-04-20T10:17:54Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I’ve done a lot of research and I think Minneapolis fits my bill the best. I’m going to get drivers’ lessons next month and hopefully move out there late this year or early next year, as soon as I get a car. I really wish I could just leave now, but I suppose I’ll have to spend the rest of the year suffering since I have nowhere else to go. Since you’ve done a lot of research, which places came in 2nd, 3rd, and so on? You might want to ask about those too. I’ve lived in 3 different countries and 5 US states, and it seems there are an abundance of good folk and assholes everywhere. I would think your choice should be based on the disposable income you have after your SSI check minus rent/transportation/living. (I don’t know about you, but 3-4 good friends is enough for me, and I was able to find other gun-totin’ rednecks to hang out with, even in Seattle) 🙂 Bonus question: Does Portland have an unusually large homeless population? I’m curious why (if anyone knows). ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/23 "2015-04-20T12:07:23Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > Bonus question: Does Portland have an unusually large homeless population? I’m curious why (if anyone knows). [Here’s a good, recent, article about it.](http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-homeless/) > [@](#): > > Nationally, the number of homeless has dropped by 11 percent since 2007. In Portland, the 2014 point-in-time count showed nine more people than the 2007 total. > > That’s because homelessness in Portland is, to a greater degree than most other U.S. cities, actually a housing problem. Because of well-intentioned decisions made by well-meaning policymakers, Portland lacks enough permanent housing — the foundation of the 10-year plans — and enough emergency shelter space. Backlogs plague every step in the system. > > —Snip— > > Oregon, however, has a higher percentage of unsheltered homeless people — 50 percent — than every state except four. And among major U.S. cities, Portland had the eighth-highest number of chronically homeless individuals and the third-highest rate of unsheltered chronically homeless people: Ninety percent of people who’ve been homeless for an extended period here were sleeping in places the federal government defines as “not meant for human habitation,” including sidewalks, park benches, abandoned buildings or cars. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/24 "2015-04-20T12:17:29Z")
For me, the best American city to be down and out in was Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/25 "2015-04-20T12:57:33Z")
Yes, if the cold in Portland bugs you, Minneapolis and Fargo are great alternatives. Might as well move to Iowa, experience “Iowa nice” and the [Des Moines Renaissance](http://www.desmoinesisnotboring.com/wordpress/2013/03/10-or-so-questions-from-ben-gran-scott-siepker-the-iowa-nice-guy/). ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/26 "2015-04-20T12:59:25Z")
Do you hate where you are because it is Portland or do you hate where you are because you’re poor? I know what it is like to live somewhere and loathe it so I totally get where you are coming from, but be warned that there are extra costs associated with living in pretty much any city. For example, my family and I moved from NYC to a suburb of Boston a couple of years ago and our cost of living actually went up because we had to have a car to get around here. Our quality of life went up too, but from a strictly financial standpoint it costs us more to live here than it did to live in Manhattan. There are places you can go with significantly cheaper living costs but that tends to mean lower pay for the same job and fewer jobs to be had. You should also really make a point of going to visit any place you might consider moving at least once before you pack up and move with bonus points for going during the worst time of year. I would highly recommend someone considering moving to Minneapolis make a trip there in mid-February or someone planning a move to Phoenix to make a trip there in mid-July. It is easy to sit where you are and say, “Oh, I can totally deal with that horrible thing if it means I don’t have to live here anymore!” but actually dealing with that horrible thing might be significantly worse than you are expecting. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/27 "2015-04-20T13:17:40Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > …and say, “Oh, I can totally deal with that horrible thing if it means I don’t have to live here anymore!” but actually dealing with that horrible thing might be significantly worse than you are expecting. Exactly. When you’re running away from something, any direction is equally away. Far smarter to run towards something you’ve chosen intelligently. You’ll be just as away from the old place, but far more likely to be happy in the new place. Since the OP is poor, there’s not a lot of opportunity for advance visits, nor is there likely to be a second chance to move again any time soon if the first jump becomes from frying pan to fire. I might have missed something, but AFAIK the OP has told us a bit about what he can’t do for work, but nothing about what he could do, given the opportunity. Knowing something about what jobs he’s able and qualified for might help us help him on that side of the equation. Or even knowing he intends to live on SSI alone would be useful info. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/28 "2015-04-20T15:03:25Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, we love it here. It’s just got its quirks. > > One similar place would be Madison, Wisconsin. It’s the capital and a big university. Very liberal, Wisconsinites are more social (and more into the bar scene too). The one major drawback is Scott Walker and what he’s doing to the state. Have you spent much time here (Madison)? I’m originally from Western New York, moved here about fifteen years ago, and I don’t love the people here. I ask because I spent about a week in Rochester, MN a year or two ago and thought everyone there was awesome. I understand Minnesota has its act together and have been considering a move there as well. It’s not that Madisonians are terrible people or anything (although they can’t drive). It’s just that the one personality trait I find most off-putting is taking yourself seriously, and that seems to be a featured characteristic. There’s a definite pretentiousness here. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/29 "2015-04-20T15:15:43Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I’ve thought about the South, but I’ve heard people there are ignorant and hate people who are on government assistance, even if they genuinely need it like I do. Another issue is that I’m an atheist. Oh, no we isn’t! We ain’t ignernt down heyah in tha South, we jest know whut’s right is all. We jest don’t cotton to no carpet baggin’ yankees, specially them that don’t love God, family and tha CSA!!! Y’all is always tellin us how we should be more like New Yark and sech, with their fancy schoolin and silverware and all. We don’t need no stinkin schoolin, we get along jest fine on our own. And if’n God hada wanted us to use a fork he wouldnta give us 10 fingers and battered food. Ain’t no sense at all in you comin down heyuh, cause we’d jest prolly take a likin to your purty teeth and trade you back and forth for tobbaccy. And we love us some homeless people, if’n they’s fried up right and served with biscuits an gravy. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/30 "2015-04-20T15:22:13Z")
Golf clap. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/31 "2015-04-20T16:00:41Z")
> [@Cabin\_Fever](#): > > This. Not the place it once was, definitely. You mean the place where the downtown was lifeless, the restaurants sucked, and there was a freeway along the river front? Yeah, those were the days. 😉 Yeah, rents and real estate are unusually high. I’m not sure how the Portland economy supports the housing prices. It’s not the best place to move to if you don’t have a job waiting for you, but that can be said of most cities. If you don’t have any job skills other than minimum wage, it’s gonna be a tough slog most places. Someone mentioned Fargo, and I know that fast food places in ND are paying good wages. I talked to a woman on the Amtrak train a few years ago who commuted from Montana to ND because the pay was so good at the McD she was working at. She’d flop there during the week and take the train home on Friday night. Finding a place to rent was a problem. The problem with that sort of economy is that boom usually turns to bust at some point, and you’ll need to move on again. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/32 "2015-04-20T16:20:53Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > Have you spent much time here (Madison)? Me? No. My SO is from about two hours away from Madison, but went to school and taught there as well. He also suggested Milwaukee but I shot that down quickly because Milwaukee has just taken a turn for the ‘ew’. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/33 "2015-04-20T17:10:57Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Oh, no we isn’t! We ain’t ignernt down heyah in tha South, we jest know whut’s right is all. We jest don’t cotton to no carpet baggin’ yankees, specially them that don’t love God, family and tha CSA!!! Y’all is always tellin us how we should be more like New Yark and sech, with their fancy schoolin and silverware and all. We don’t need no stinkin schoolin, we get along jest fine on our own. And if’n God hada wanted us to use a fork he wouldnta give us 10 fingers and battered food. Ain’t no sense at all in you comin down heyuh, cause we’d jest prolly take a likin to your purty teeth and trade you back and forth for tobbaccy. Dad? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/34 "2015-04-20T17:33:20Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > It’s not that Madisonians are terrible people or anything (although they can’t drive). It’s just that the one personality trait I find most off-putting is taking yourself seriously, and that seems to be a featured characteristic. There’s a definite pretentiousness here. Well they single-handedly stopped the Vietnam War, and have been dining out on that for 40 years now. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/35 "2015-04-20T17:57:01Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I know it’s easy to tell me “it’s not Portland, it’s you” … That _was_ easy! ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/36 "2015-04-20T18:22:09Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Someone mentioned Fargo, and I know that fast food places in ND are paying good wages. I talked to a woman on the Amtrak train a few years ago who commuted from Montana to ND because the pay was so good at the McD she was working at. She’d flop there during the week and take the train home on Friday night. Finding a place to rent was a problem. The problem with that sort of economy is that boom usually turns to bust at some point, and you’ll need to move on again. It was the western part of the state that had the crazy oil boom with the $20/hr fast food jobs and such. And yes, it’s slowed down considerably with the low price of oil although maybe hasn’t quite busted yet. The eastern part of the state where Fargo is has been undergoing a bit of a manufacturing and technology boom that’s unrelated to oil. It was originally mostly Minnesota companies lured by low taxes and other perks, but it seems to be self-sustaining these days. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/37 "2015-04-20T19:28:00Z")
I’ve lived in the Twin Cities for going on 40 years now. I wouldn’t move here without friends or money. The Twin Cities has a pretty high per capita income - so things can get expensive. And people from here don’t move - we are insular bastards - your new friends are the ones you knew 20 years ago that you reconnected with. We are externally friendly, just don’t expect to get invited to anyone’s Super Bowl party or make any meaningful friendships - we all have had ours since third grade. The places where its cheap to live you won’t make much money in low skilled jobs - the places where you can make good money in low skilled jobs will have expensive housing. Public transportation is less than awesome. And then there is the weather. Not just the bone chilling cold of Winter - which if you are bus dependent makes Minnesota REALLY SUCK but also the humid Summer. (Minneapolis DOES have a really nice park system). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/38 "2015-04-20T20:36:23Z")
> [@Lowdown](#): > > Have you spent much time here (Madison)? I’m originally from Western New York, moved here about fifteen years ago, and I don’t love the people here. I ask because I spent about a week in Rochester, MN a year or two ago and thought everyone there was awesome. I understand Minnesota has its act together and have been considering a move there as well. > > It’s not that Madisonians are terrible people or anything (although they can’t drive). It’s just that the one personality trait I find most off-putting is taking yourself seriously, and that seems to be a featured characteristic. There’s a definite pretentiousness here. I tend to agree with this. In the recent election the mayor ran on “eliminating income inequality.” Um, sure, a mayor’s going to do that. But he won, I guess enough people believe it’s possible for a mayor. Also, there is a very sharp divide between the university community and the rest of the city. Not sure if this is good or bad, but you’ll find lots of people with master’s degrees being cab drivers and retail clerks. I suppose they love the place and stay on after graduating, but there don’t seem to be as many high skill/high education jobs as there are people to fill them. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/39 "2015-04-20T20:49:19Z")
People aren’t kidding about Minnesota Nice. My riff on the state motto is: “Land of 10,000 Cliques”. I played D&D with a group of 40-somethings who had known each other since college. I played with a group of late 30-somethings who had known each other since they were SIX. Everyone is in one or more very tight knit social circles that may or may not intersect. Breaking in can be tough. I live in a very nice suburb (Eagan) that is extremely livable. I take the bus from my local transit station (1.3 miles from my apartment) and get dropped off in front of my office building. I pay all of about $75 a month for this. No kidding. The bus pass gives you 10% extra when you put money on it and I have $100 taken each month as “Commuter Benefit”, which is pre-tax, so it really means about $65-70 after taxes. Then I have to put a slight amount more on it once a year to make it work, averaging about that $75. And the people on my bus? Average age is in their 40’s. Summer? Oh yeah. You’ll find plenty to do here for those 5 glorious months of good weather (May to September). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075/40 "2015-04-20T21:18:53Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Yeah, rents and real estate are unusually high. I’m not sure how the Portland economy supports the housing prices. Trustafarianism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-minneapolis-a-good-place-to-flee-portland-to-warning-a-rant/718075.md?page=3)