# Is modern Islamic antisemitism different than historical Islamic anti-semitism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-modern-islamic-antisemitism-different-than-historical-islamic-anti-semitism/585026 "2011-06-10T20:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 19
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-modern-islamic-antisemitism-different-than-historical-islamic-anti-semitism/585026/19 "2011-06-13T04:45:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > WTF!!! Since when did Great Debates OPs have to be neutral? Half the time OPs get criticized for being too neutral. But you’re right I should have provided a cite (as if its a fucking secret that this topic doesn’t come up multiple times in every single Israel thread and has to be addressed over and over again) so here: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899032&postcount=540](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899032&postcount=540) > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899180&postcount=560](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899180&postcount=560) > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899305&postcount=588](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13899305&postcount=588) > > The claim is that islamic anti-semitism has always existed and that what we see today is not really distinguishable from what we might have seen in the past. > > The notion is that the arabs don’t hate jews because of zionism or the creation of the state of Israel, its because arabs have always been anti-semites. > > Like I said, **CP isn’t the only Israel apologist guilty of this** but I felt that it would be useful to get this one sorted out so we wouldn’t have to keep rehashing this one over and over again. First, being an ‘apologist’ means that you defend every position, often rewriting history and putting forth incredible double standards. I don’t do this. Second, the first post you linked does not give credence to your original OP. > [@Obama calls for independent Palestine, 1967 borders](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/540): > > > [@Obama calls for independent Palestine, 1967 borders](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-calls-for-independent-palestine-1967-borders/582500/540): > > > > He appears to be a bit…Judeo-phobic. He doesn’t seem to understand that Jews in America are sympathetic the plight of Israelis due to Islamic anti-Semitism\*. Not many are ‘Israel apologists’. If they are, they aren’t serious academics. > > > > There was much talk about the Arab-American vote and Obama as Arab Americans are concerned with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. These Arab-Americans aren’t necessarily Palestinian - it’s about personal identification, religion, and fear of persecution based on one’s ethnic/religious background. Why isn’t there outcry on SD about how Muslims want to ‘control American foreign policy’? > > > > Alan Dershowitz is no more an apologist (well, I’m basing this on _The Case for Israel_) of Israel than Khalidi is of the PLO. They offer different legal perspectives. They are both biased and can cause offense, but neither are hateful. > > \*\* > > What Hamas, the PLO, Iran, Hezbollah, etc. project _is_ hatred. When MK Leiberman says that only Orthodox Jews should be allowed aliyah or that Muslims should be deported to Palestine, that’s hatred.\*\* > > > > But…if someone’s rejection of your argument is, “Oh, well you just want to cry antiSemitism because you are an apologist!” I have to wonder if they do hold questionable views, are ignorant, or are just extremely sensitive to disagreement. > > \*\* > > Criticism of Israel is often a euphemism for anti-Semitism. I believe one can have anti-Semitic views and be very sincere about it - they’re just ignorant of facts. But Jews and Israelis are critical of Israeli government as well. If I were in Israel, I wouldn’t vote Likud, but because I’m Jewish and am disagreeing with someone in this thread, he sees me as religious Zionist/Israel apologist/god knows what.\*\* > > > > Israel isn’t ruled by some despot who has had control for the last 60 years and can be judged as one government. Usually, when talking about the “Palestinian” side, we are talking about the PLO (unless we distinguish ourselves and mention Hamas) as they been the representatives of the Palestinians since Jordan named the West Bank, well, the West Bank. That’s limited to a few people. > > > > Finally, the idea that America is ruled by someone else’s government doesn’t even make sense. America does what is in its best interests. If America did not need Israel, it would not care. > > > > \*and the history of people hating Jews for the last few thousand _years_ What is Zionism? Originally - the idea that Jews have a right to their own statehood - and it stems from a need for Jews to have their own protection. It derives from socialist and natural rights philosophies. Most modern-day Diaspora Zionists believe that Israel has a right to exist, either as a Jewish nation or one that protects Jews from persecution. The early settlers of Eretz Yisrael were not right-wing Orthodox parties. The Haredi Jews did not build Israel and they will not fight for it, but they wish to rule it. :rolleyes: If you agree that Zionism is a belief that Israel has a right (if not a duty to the 9 million other Jews) to exist, then sure, I’m a Zionist. I’m O.K. with that. What you said, _The claim is that islamic anti-semitism has always existed and that what we see today is not really distinguishable from what we might have seen in the past_, is false. Of course Islamic anti-Semitism has changed and expanded. But _antisemitism_ doesn’t change, and _Islamic_ anti-Semitism still holds that Jews are inferior to Muslims. Jews have rejected the two (newer) major religions of the world. Makes sense there would be some resentment. Why do you think that Arab nations and leaders were largely sympathetic, if not outright supportive, of Nazi Germany’s persecution of Jews? Islamic anti-semitism has been in existence since the creation of Islam. Not surprisingly, anti-Islamic and anti-Christian sentiment and distrust has been in existence within Jewry since their creations as well. The question is not a matter of which group is ‘better’ or ‘more moral’ than the other two: the question is what happens when another group has power. While Israel aimed to be a pluralistic and wholly democratic liberal society that could be a beacon of the Jewish people and protect other persecuted groups, it has fallen a little short of said goal. The major difference I see is that the PA is OK with honor killings, murders of suspected ‘Israeli spies’, and teachings of sheer anti-Jew hatred in their schools while putting on a pretty face for the rest of the world. Other Arab countries aren’t shy about it. Iran, while not Arab but Muslim, is perfectly happy with its reputation. In Israel, if there some anti-Muslim sentiment, everyone is in uproar - including most Israelis. But what concerns me is when **Arab or Muslim countries do the same thing and you write it off as, "Well, if the Jews hadn’t settled there…**" as an excuse. THAT smacks of anti-semtisim to me. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-modern-islamic-antisemitism-different-than-historical-islamic-anti-semitism/585026)._