# Is monarchy the best form of government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651 "2004-09-29T10:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/1 "2004-09-29T10:50:50Z")
These days everyone is always banging on about how good democracy is, but in reality democracy has 2 terrible failings: 1. The people don’t really have any say at all in a democracy 2. Accountability is lost This simply leads to all democracy becoming by necessity an oligarchy with the apearance of benefitting the people whereas in actual fact all decisions benefit only the oligarchy. Since decisions are not shown to be made by any one individual, no-one is held accountable for bad decisions, and although blame might be shifted around, ultimately no-one is punished. In this way many terrible decisions are made because there is no deterrant. In contrast because a monarch is completely accountable to the people, he must by necessity make good decisions that are in the interests of the people or be deposed. (Assuming that the political mechanism for desposition exists). Of course there should be some council of elders who can ultimately override all decisions, and a good selection mechanism should exist, not relying on blood. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/2 "2004-09-29T10:58:43Z")
I can’t see how your system is an improvement on the one we’ve got. Every election, the leaders are held accountable and deposed if they’re found wanting. Exactly the same as in your hypothetical monarchy. The only difference I can see between the current system and yours is that yours contains one leader and the current one contains many. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/3 "2004-09-29T11:01:48Z")
I like monarchy. It is my own prefered form of government. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/4 "2004-09-29T11:02:33Z")
Good point, but the periodic election of a new leader does not change the fact that no-one is held accountable while he or she is in office. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/5 "2004-09-29T11:06:25Z")
Ah that last post was addressed to priceguy - you beat me to it liberal. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/6 "2004-09-29T11:08:26Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > Good point, but the periodic election of a new leader does not change the fact that no-one is held accountable while he or she is in office. So your system would have some kind of constantly active mechanism for deposing an unwanted monarch? How would this work practically? If someone wanted to depose the monarch, would he/she have to collect signatures? Start an election? Run for monarch him/herself? By the way, how is the monarch chosen? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/7 "2004-09-29T11:10:37Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > By the way, how is the monarch chosen? Can’t speak for Scarf-Ace, but mine is chosen by my own consent. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/8 "2004-09-29T11:10:46Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > So your system would have some kind of constantly active mechanism for deposing an unwanted monarch? How would this work practically? If someone wanted to depose the monarch, would he/she have to collect signatures? Start an election? Run for monarch him/herself? By the way, how is the monarch chosen? As I said the council would deal with all that stuff. The monarch should be chosen in the best possible way, I don’t want to get bogged down in details. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/9 "2004-09-29T11:14:33Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > As I said the council would deal with all that stuff. So the monarch is held accountable only by the council? > [@](#): > > The monarch should be chosen in the best possible way, I don’t want to get bogged down in details. Well then, it’s impossible to debate your system. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/10 "2004-09-29T11:36:05Z")
I think the OP means “dictatorship.” Most monarchies in history have had other institutions such as the Senate, Parliaments, consuls, prime ministers, chancellors, all with varying powers and different levels of accountability. Is there any particular system you wish to advocate? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/11 "2004-09-29T12:01:37Z")
Perhaps a Parlimentary system, with its mid-term “No Confidence” votes may work better than the US system? ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/12 "2004-09-29T12:48:41Z")
Well I suppose they could be chosen by a system of competition where they are tested for sound judgement in economics, diplomacy, ethics etc. It could all be televised - who wants to be a monarch! Seriously though thats only one possible way, I hadn’t really thought about it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/13 "2004-09-29T13:01:14Z")
According to Mrs. RickJay, the best form of government is in fact a matriarchal dictatorship, at least at our house. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/14 "2004-09-29T13:05:27Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > …and a good selection mechanism should exist, not relying on blood. Monarchies, by definition are selected by blood relations…which is nothing like our current system…nothing like it at all ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/15 "2004-09-29T13:14:38Z")
If a leader is chosen by a TV program, it really isn’t a monarchy, is it? I mean, the bit about hereditary rights and all that seems to be missing. And I admire the way that you slough off elections as not holding leaders accountable. Tell that to Johnson in 1968, Carter in 1980, Bush in 1992, and… uhm, well, it doesn’t look so good for 2004, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/16 "2004-09-29T13:24:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > According to Mrs. RickJay, the best form of government is in fact a matriarchal dictatorship, at least at our house. You too huh? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/17 "2004-09-29T13:25:47Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > These days everyone is always banging on about how good democracy is, but in reality democracy has 2 terrible failings: > > 1. The people don’t really have any say at all in a democracy > 2. Accountability is lost > > … > > In contrast because a monarch is completely accountable to the people, he must by necessity make good decisions that are in the interests of the people or be deposed. (Assuming that the political mechanism for desposition exists). Of course there should be some council of elders who can ultimately override all decisions, and a good selection mechanism should exist, not relying on blood. I find this whole post puzzling, especially as I live in a country with a Monarchy stretching back over centuries. Firstly the standard quote is that ‘Democracy has its faults, but is better than all the alternatives.’ I think this is obvious, but will happily debate it if you want. ‘The people don’t really have any say at all in a democracy’ 😕 Since the **whole point of democracy is that people have a say** , I don’t understand you. Sure unscrupulous politicians can try to subvert democracy, but that’s a danger in any system. In a Monarchy, the people have precisely no say at all. Look up ‘‘The peasants’ revolt’ and ‘English Civil War’. ‘Accountability is lost’ 😕 And what do you think an **election** is? There aren’t any elections in a Monarchy. ‘because a monarch is completely accountable to the people’ :smack: In what way? If an English mediaeval Monarch wanted your lands, monastery, wife or daughter he simply took them. If he wanted to declare war he did. If he wanted to draft you, he did. If he wanted you dead, he dropped a hint and people killed you. You don’t have constitutional rights under a Monarchy. ‘council of elders who can ultimately override all decisions’ So it’s not a Monarchy, then? And who picks these ‘elders’? Are they … elected? What a great system. Let’s call it … democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/18 "2004-09-29T13:33:29Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > In contrast because a monarch is completely accountable to the people, he must by necessity make good decisions that are in the interests of the people or be deposed. (Assuming that the political mechanism for desposition exists). Of course there should be some council of elders who can ultimately override all decisions, and a good selection mechanism should exist, not relying on blood. Lovely, a spartan monarchy. You sure you don’t want to have two monachs thrown in the mix too? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/19 "2004-09-29T13:46:55Z")
> [@Scarf-Ace](#): > > This simply leads to all democracy becoming by necessity an oligarchy with the apearance of benefitting the people whereas in actual fact all decisions benefit only the oligarchy. So, your solution to this problem is to have an absolute leader who cannot be deposed by the people at large and is only responsible to a small council? 😕 I don’t think you’ve thought this through. > [@](#): > > Since decisions are not shown to be made by any one individual, no-one is held accountable for bad decisions, and although blame might be shifted around, ultimately no-one is punished. In this way many terrible decisions are made because there is no deterrant. And what would be the deterrant to a monarch who only has to answer to a few council members. So long as his decisions benefit those councilmembers, why would they get rid of him, even if his decisions did flush the rest of the populace down the toilet? > [@](#): > > In contrast because a monarch is completely accountable to the people, he must by necessity make good decisions that are in the interests of the people or be deposed. (Assuming that the political mechanism for desposition exists). But the point of the monarchy is that there ISN’T a mechanism for deposition. I mean, how would the monarch be accountable to the people? Elections? Polls? A referendum? What you’re probably imagining is an absolute dictator who can make any decision he wants and can pass any law with no interference, who is watched over and appointed by an elected council that can depose him by a majority or supermajority vote. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651/20 "2004-09-29T15:18:22Z")
Perhaps my use of the term “monarchy” was misleading, I see that we have different interpretations of the scope of the word. What I mean by a monarch is: a single ruler, not chosen by bloodline, but by a rigorous system of examination and competition. He could be deposed by the council if the people showed their discontent. I expect they would do this by rioting, looting and whooping in an excited fashion. > [@Neurotik](#): > > And what would be the deterrant to a monarch who only has to answer to a few council members. So long as his decisions benefit those councilmembers, why would they get rid of him, even if his decisions did flush the rest of the populace down the toilet? The point is though that he would be a very benificient monarch because of the rigour of the selection process. The likelyhood that the council would actually have to depose him would be infinitely small. There would be a similarly rigorous selection process for the council of elders, so that no bad seeds got in. However their normal influence would be very small. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-monarchy-the-best-form-of-government/266651.md?page=2)