# Is Moonracer (from the Rudolph special) a toy or a real lion-bird thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179 "2014-12-14T03:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/1 "2014-12-14T03:01:13Z")
On the Christmas episode of the Middle this year this discussion came up. One character thought King Moonracer was himself a misfit toy, another strongly felt otherwise, and a third character had to watch the special to break the tie. But how do WE feel about this important issue? Spoilerboxing my own thoughts on the matter, just so if you’d like you can vote without being influenced by my opinion. I’d never even considered before that Moonracer was a toy, despite his ruling over the Island of Misfit toys. To me, just because he lives there and is the king doesn’t mean he’s one of them. He flies around the world saving the defective toys, after all, seems to me that makes him more of a magical being, like Santa, than a toy. Besides, what kid wouldn’t have liked a toy like that? Why would he be a misfit? Axel was totally right, screw the rest of BossCo., no way is Moonracer a toy (though I’m sure there have been toys made in his image!) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/2 "2014-12-14T17:25:10Z")
_Clearly_ he’s St Mark The Evangelist (just like Santa is another Christian saint) The crown is just a substitute halo… ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/3 "2014-12-14T17:54:49Z")
I’d always assumed he was a real lion who could fly. Now I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/4 "2014-12-14T18:16:59Z")
He’s an imp of Satan who tricks all the really coolest toys into believing themselves misfits. Then he takes them back to his island pervopalace where only he gets to play with them. What kid, for example, would not want a squirtgun that shoots jelly? ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/5 "2014-12-14T18:29:40Z")
He’s a misfit toy. Why would he rescue, shelter, and rule over misfit toys if he were not himself one of them? And the fact that he’s a hybrid bird/cat creature just serves to punctuate the point. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/6 "2014-12-14T19:36:50Z")
I’d never considered the question before. I imagine the theology of Rankin-Bass specials is pretty fluid. Moonracer doesn’t have to be limited by your small concepts! He’s a toy _and_ a god, maybe? I’d always heard his name as King Moonrazor. Which I like a little bit better than Moonracer, even if it makes no damn sense. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/7 "2014-12-15T00:38:28Z")
My first response would be that he IS a toy, but on second thought it is not so clear cut. They DID make a toy of him, but I assume you mean within the Rudolph universe. Here some IMDB quotes [http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0290109/quotes](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0290109/quotes) “This Island is for toys alone” - does he include himself? Brian ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/8 "2014-12-15T00:47:00Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > My first response would be that he IS a toy, but on second thought it is not so clear cut. > > They DID make a toy of him, but I assume you mean within the Rudolph universe. > > Here some IMDB quotes > [http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0290109/quotes](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0290109/quotes) > > “This Island is for toys alone” - does he include himself? Yeah, come to think of it, he _does_ limit them (Rudolph, Hermey and Cornelius) to a one-night stay in the guest hovel because they’re living creatures. So how the hell does the bird in the goldfish bowl qualify to stay? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/9 "2014-12-15T01:05:26Z")
This dodges the real question: what was wrong with the doll?! ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/10 "2014-12-15T18:26:44Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This dodges the real question: what was wrong with the doll?! The post-modern theory I’ve heard is… the doll is trans. I like the idea of Moonracer being a toy. He’s a flying lion…which seems to fit in pretty well with the other misfits. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/11 "2014-12-15T18:38:29Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This dodges the real question: what was wrong with the doll?! She has poor self-esteem. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/12 "2014-12-15T18:55:18Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This dodges the real question: what was wrong with the doll?! The girl who owned her out grew her. She says so herself, “There’s no one to love her” They didn’t make it too clear,because they didn’t want to be such a downer. But its real, little girls out grow their dolls. They only keep the latest ones out of sentimentality, it that. If toys actually had feelings, this would be horrific. Hence, _Toy Story 2_, which actually showed us a montage of a little girl growing up around Jessie as she sits on a self before she’s given away. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/13 "2014-12-15T18:56:48Z")
I’ve never thought he was anything but a toy, but now I’ll have to watch with “super flying lion being” in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/14 "2014-12-15T18:59:41Z")
I always assumed he was another toy. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/15 "2014-12-15T19:05:51Z")
I think I assumed he was a toy way back then. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/16 "2014-12-15T19:06:47Z")
Huh… in looking up ‘winged lion’, I just found out where **Silenus** ’ username comes from. > **[Silenus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silenus)** > > In Greek mythology, Silenus (/saɪˈliːnəs/; Ancient Greek: Σειληνός, romanized: Seilēnós, IPA: \[seːlɛːnós\]) was a companion and tutor to the wine god Dionysus. He is typically older than the satyrs of the Dionysian retinue (thiasos), and sometimes considerably older, in which case he may be referred to as a Papposilenus. The plural sileni refers to the mythological figure as a type that is sometimes thought to be differentiated from a satyr by having the attributes of a horse rather than a goat, t... (sorry for the hijack… it seemed appropriate). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/17 "2014-12-15T23:29:46Z")
I’m very surprised “toy” isn’t winning. He’s on the Island of Misfit Toys. The island is for toys alone. And he’s not being portrayed as the type who would say “but the rules don’t apply to me!” And he’d be the only creature in the movie that was not a proper winter/Christmas mythical creature. I never once thought he was anything but a toy. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/18 "2014-12-15T23:35:29Z")
If he’s a toy, what’s his deal? A flying lion would be awesome! He still shouldn’t be there on the island. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-moonracer-from-the-rudolph-special-a-toy-or-a-real-lion-bird-thing/707179/19 "2014-12-16T01:01:32Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This dodges the real question: what was wrong with the doll?! Major depression