# Is Mormonism false? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581 "2008-01-15T05:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/61 "2008-01-17T02:06:47Z")
Let’s say, it’s very difficult for it to be true. Smith’s claims include a sort of Young Earth Creationism, which modern geology’s evidences of Deep Time render suspect. On top of that, the plates from which he ostensibly translated are conveniently not here anymore. I’m told–but due to my great distaste for the prose of the Book of Mormon am unable as yet to confirm–that there are place names in the Book of Mormon that seem suspiciously like an alteration of place names established by the English-speakers in New York. It’s arguably in the same, “but it technically could be true,” vein as _Clan of the Cave Bear_ & Kris Kringle’s workshop at the North Pole, neither of which are what we’d call reliable history. A label of divine truth feels like something sold to the gullible. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/62 "2008-01-17T04:55:16Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] When asked by her son Joseph Smith III whether his father was an adulterer, Emma answered no. He didn’t ask her anything more specific than that, and obviously that’s a pretty vague question. Since Joseph was supposed to have been _married_ to his plural wives, Emma could answer no to the charge of adultery without actually addressing the polygamy question at all. JSIII took that as a complete denial of polygamy, and the historical position of the CoC stemmed from that. _In Sacred Loneliness_ addresses the question of children. I believe that there were a few, but not many. Quite a few of the plural wives were wives in name only, and there wasn’t nearly as much action going on as people assume from hearing about “30 wives.” [/QUOTE] And you know this how? That’s not the story from the [CofC site](http://www.cofchrist.org/ourfaith/faq.asp) > [@](#): > > Joseph Smith III, son of the founding prophet and first prophet-president of the RLDS Church (1860–1914), spent much of his life trying to clear his father’s name from the stigma of polygamy and polygamous doctrine, even though there were leaders in the early RLDS Church who believed otherwise. If you look at the [Wikki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith%2C_Jr.) article we find > [@](#): > > However, Emma died denying that her husband ever had any other wives, as did Smith’s eldest son Joseph. Emma Smith’s deathbed testimony stated “no such thing as polygamy, or spiritual wifery, was taught, publicly or privately, before my husband’s death, that I have now, or ever had any knowledge of…He had no other wife but me; nor did he to my knowledge ever have” > [@](#): > > As of 2007, there are at least twelve early Latter Day Saints who, based on historical documents and circumstantial evidence, have been identified as potential Smith offspring stemming from plural marriages. In 2005 and 2007 studies, a geneticist with the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation showed “with 99.9 percent accuracy” that five of these individuals were in fact not Smith’s children: Mosiah Hancock (son of Clarissa Reed Hancock), Oliver Buell (son of Prescendia Huntington Buell), Moroni Llewellyn Pratt (son of Mary Ann Frost Pratt), Zebulon Jacobs (son of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith), and Orrison Smith (son of Fanny Alger). I believe Fanny Alger is the first woman mentioned in the book you linked to. Again, it really doesn’t matter, but it does seem it’s not a slam dunk. Although in the wikki article on [J. Smith III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_III) > [@](#): > > For most of his career, Smith denied that his father had been involved in the practice and insisted that it had originated with Brigham Young. Smith served many missions to the western United States where he met with and interviewed associates and widows of his father who attempted to present him with evidence to the contrary. In the end, in the face of overwhelming evidence, Smith concluded that he was “not positive nor sure that [his father] was innocent” ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/63 "2008-01-17T06:18:24Z")
I was going from memory, so I wasn’t as accurate as I should have been. Have done a little reading now. Unfortunately I’m not finding an online copy of Emma’s last testimony, but from what I’ve read there are a few complexities about it. She was very elderly at the time, and died only a few weeks later. Her sons went and interviewed her for several days, and printed the transcript after her death in the _Saints Herald_. They titled it her last testimony, but there is no indication that she considered it to be an official public testimony, and it’s not a sworn statement or anything. Some of her statements are puzzling. For example, she said that she lost three infants, and mentioned her firstborn child, the twins, and also the adopted Murdock twins. But Emma lost other infants–a stillborn son and a baby of 13 months, who she did not mention. She also refuted charges of Joseph’s adultery and indicated that he did not introduce polygamy. That may not be as clear-cut as it seems, however; by that time, lurid rumors were reaching the East where she lived, and JSIII was trying to clear his father’s name of those charges (which were, of course, all he knew about polygamy). What he was trying to refute, and what Joseph actually did, were two very different things, and Emma may have been talking about those charges. And Emma may have simply chosen to answer her sons ambiguously or falsely, being old, tired, and ill. In the end we can’t know what Emma was feeling or thinking, but the fact is that there is plenty of other evidence on the question. I’ve always admired Emma greatly, so I have a lot of feeling for her. (And, btw, my book is _Emma and Joseph_ by Gracia M. Jones, a descendant.) ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/64 "2008-01-17T14:26:34Z")
Just so I’m keeping the players straight is the Community of Christ (CoC) the same church formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS) formed by followers of the religion of Joseph Smith who stayed in the midwest while the larger group of his followers went to Utah and operated the better known, Salt Lake City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/65 "2008-01-17T14:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=Billdo] Just so I’m keeping the players straight is the Community of Christ (CoC) the same church formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS) formed by followers of the religion of Joseph Smith who stayed in the midwest while the larger group of his followers went to Utah and operated the better known, Salt Lake City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581/66 "2008-01-17T15:10:27Z")
[QUOTE=Billdo] Just so I’m keeping the players straight is the Community of Christ (CoC) the same church formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS) formed by followers of the religion of Joseph Smith who stayed in the midwest while the larger group of his followers went to Utah and operated the better known, Salt Lake City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? [/QUOTE] Yeah, Joseph Smith III was eleven when his father was killed. Other members believed him to be the designated leader and the church was _reorganized_ years later when he grew up. The typical organized religion thing has occurred within that group as well and as the church changed it’s policies and name a few splinter groups rejected the changes and retain the RLDS name. Go Figure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-mormonism-false/433581.md?page=3)