# Is MSG bad for you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 13, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850 "2020-02-13T00:25:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/41 "2020-02-16T00:02:14Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’d eat it by the teaspoon as a kid. Very tasty, not overwhelming like salt. You can add a lot to a dish without making it inedible. We cook with it a lot; a friend who claims to not tolerate MSG helped herself to a dish loaded with it (a tbsp in 8 oz of dip), consumed a bunch before we found out hours later. Had no symptoms. That is the general trend in double blind studies of self-reported sufferers of CRS. For instance: [Review of Alleged Reaction to Monosodium Glutamate and Outcome of a Multicenter Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Study](https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/130/4/1058S/4686672). > [@](#): > > In subjects who report adverse reactions to MSG, rigorous DBPC challenge studies indicate that large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG. However, neither persistent nor serious effects from MSG ingestion were observed, and the frequency of the responses was low. More importantly, the responses reported were inconsistent and were not reproducible. The responses were not observed when MSG was given with food. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/42 "2020-02-16T03:50:02Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I continue to believe that _some_ people must be overly sensitive to MSG and thus susceptible to the unpleasant effects Cecil mentions. > > Data point: Myself. MSG sometimes affects me this way. It appears to be only large doses, as Chinese food was often reputed to contain. … > This cannot be a case of placebo effect. When I was about 15 years old, living in Honolulu, we regularly ate at a certain Chinese restaurant. Every time, I got vaguely sick. (Feeling lightheaded and short of breath mainly.)… > > At some point during that year, I became aware of MSG and its purported effects. I connected the dots immediately, and concluded that the food there must be full of MSG and that must be the problem. Except that the food may well have had something else you were allergic too. Chinese food actually doesnt necessarily contain much MSG. The double blind studies talked about here in **GMANCANADA** post make it clear- it is very unlikely it was the MSG. Same with Migraine headaches. > **[MSG: How a Friendly Flavor Became Your Enemy](https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4706)** > > The history of this vilified flavoring is a wild ride through 20th century cultural influences. Free Book Recent episodes received support from: M\*SG: How a Friendly Flavor Became Your Enemy The history of this vilified flavoring is a wild ride through 20th century cultural influences. by Brian Dunning Filed under Health Skeptoid Podcast #706 December 17, 2019 Podcast transcript | Subscribe Listen: Share Tweet Reddit Today we’re going to pull up a seat at our favorite restaurant, order our favorite meal — and whether we want to or not, we’re going to gorge down on glutamic acid, better known in its commercial form as MSG. Although vilified by many, glutamic acid is something we all eat lots of every day, as it occurs naturally in our bodies and our food, and yet it is strangely claimed to produce a staggering array of unpleasant symptoms when any additional amount is added to our food as a flavoring agent. This is the story of MSG, and how it went from being a natural and important amino acid, to a favorite flavoring for chefs all around the world, to being reviled as a threat to your health. … Ever since then, through to the present day, people have been self-diagnosing with MSG sensitivity. The claimed symptoms have broadened considerably, popularly including just about any negative symptom that a person might feel: headaches, sweating, anxiety, numbness, palpitations, chest pain, nausea, weakness, dizziness, and facial flushing, tingling, or pressure. … In 1995, the US Food & Drug Administration set out to resolve the question of MSG sensitivity once and for all. They contracted with FASEB (the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) to assemble an Expert Panel to review all of the existing research on MSG. Their final report, which is 350 pages long, is called Analysis of Adverse Reactions to Monosodium Glutamate. What they found is interesting. An average person gets 13 grams of glutamate in their normal daily diet, with only about half a gram of that (about 4%) in the form of added MSG. So MSG is a pretty small contributor to the amount of glutamate that anyone gets. Research found no adverse effects from this. Meaning that if you consume MSG in a normal amount in the normal way, exhaustive controlled testing has found that even people who self-diagnose as MSG sensitive do not experience any symptoms that correlate to the MSG in their meal. However, the Expert Panel was able to identify two groups of people who may experience symptoms. The first of these were healthy test subjects who were given 3 grams of MSG on an empty stomach with no other food — just the MSG — about six times as much as the average person gets in a whole day of meals. When given this extreme amount, a small number of test subjects reported feeling some of the symptoms within one hour, though the symptoms were both minor and transient and soon disappeared. Given anything less than that, no blinded and controlled trials have ever found that people experience any negative symptoms as a result of MSG in their food. To put that in perspective, it’s comparable to being given three tablespoons of salt on an empty stomach with no other food (that’s six times what the average person gets in a day). What symptoms would you experience? It doesn’t really matter, because nobody ever does that.\* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/43 "2020-02-16T03:54:06Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, here it comes. I suggest that the gentle reader wait until a substantial block of uninterrupted time is available before beginning to read this. > … > (5) I myself had a long history, way back then, of consistently becoming vaguely ill when eating Chinese food. This could not have been a placebo (or “nocebo”) effect because in my teen years, I didn’t even know about MSG or Chinese Restaurant syndrome. But I sure knew that eating at certain Chinese restaurants consistently made me vaguely (and sometimes more than vaguely), but transiently, ill. > > … No one doubts your history. But you dont know it was MSG. Maybe there was something else in the food that caused this reaction. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/44 "2020-02-16T19:23:52Z")
The column has been updated with a note from the Mayo Clinic site, which states the following: > **[How does your body react to MSG?](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196)** > > This flavor enhancer often added to foods can cause headache and other symptoms in some people. ===== Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer commonly added to Chinese food, canned vegetables, soups and processed meats. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified MSG as a food ingredient that’s “generally recognized as safe,” but its use remains controversial. For this reason, when MSG is added to food, the FDA requires that it be listed on the label. MSG has been used as a food additive for decades. Over the years, the FDA has received many anecdotal reports of adverse reactions to foods containing MSG. These reactions — known as MSG symptom complex — include: Headache Flushing Sweating Facial pressure or tightness Numbness, tingling or burning in the face, neck and other areas Rapid, fluttering heartbeats (heart palpitations) Chest pain Nausea Weakness # However, researchers have found no definitive evidence of a link between MSG and these symptoms. Researchers acknowledge, though, that a small percentage of people may have short-term reactions to MSG. Symptoms are usually mild and don’t require treatment. The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG. I’ve personally known people who were allergic to MSG – mostly they seem to get pounding headaches – and while I’m sure the percentage of people with true MSG sensitivities/allergies are few compared to the general population, they’re out there for sure. Not all body chemistry is the same and there’s probably someone allergic to most everything around us. Jenny your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/45 "2020-02-16T20:47:34Z")
Referring to those who take evidence-based positions on matters of science and health as being followers of religion or “cult worship” is both inaccurate and counterproductive. I run into this a lot. A weekend editorial in the Wall St. Journal sneers at climate change “religion”. Antivaxers claim that supporters of vaccination are part of a “religion” or “cult”. Adhering to facts and requiring evidence to support a proposition is the opposite of taking things on faith. Getting off my soapbox now. > [@Melbourne](#): > > Some of the restaurants, like the one my housemate worked at, used to buy drums of the stuff, and throw handfuls of it into the product. I’m trying to picture sinister Asians cackling as they throw “handfuls” of MSG into vats of chow mein, but having difficulty. Maybe I have trouble recognizing hyperbole. It wouldn’t surprise me if certain people experienced sensitivity of some kind (maybe not an “allergy”) to food high in glutamates (for one thing, I suspect everything on earth can be a trigger for migraines, depending on the individual). It does appear from what we know now that the hoopla over “Chinese restaurant syndrome” and similar maladies alleged to be caused by MSG was vastly overblown. Could be it’s the soy sauce. Ever notice how dark and grungy the contents of those little packets get after indeterminate storage in your kitchen drawer? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/46 "2020-02-16T22:11:59Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > The column has been updated with a note from the Mayo Clinic site, which states the following: > > # [Monosodium glutamate (MSG): Is it harmful? - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196) However, researchers have found no definitive evidence of a link between MSG and these symptoms. Researchers acknowledge, though, that a small percentage of people may have short-term reactions to MSG. Symptoms are usually mild and don’t require treatment. The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG. > > I’ve personally known people who were allergic to MSG – mostly they seem to get pounding headaches – and while I’m sure the percentage of people with true MSG sensitivities/allergies are few compared to the general population, they’re out there for sure. Not all body chemistry is the same and there’s probably someone allergic to most everything around us. > > Jenny > your humble TubaDiva > Administrator But how can these people you know know it was MSG that set it off? Do they know that the restaurant used excessive (or any) MSG? Do they know some other ingredient didn’t cause it? Or even just overeating? “I felt sick, therefore it was MSG”, when it’s been cited that the notion of MSG syndrome was MADE UP in the first place, is just not reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/47 "2020-02-17T00:54:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Getting off my soapbox now.I’m trying to picture sinister Asians cackling as they throw “handfuls” of MSG into vats of chow mein, but having difficulty. Maybe I have trouble recognizing hyperbole. There is nothing ‘sinister’ about it. MSG is one of the most popular flavours in the world, including the USA and Aus, not just in China. It’s also (as noted above) not a concentrated flavour: it’s an ingredient, not a spice. To get a fairly strong MSG flavour in a large pot, you add a handful. There is another common approach, particularly in Vietnamese food: you retain the stock from one year to another, constantly cooking with it: the salts from the meat become more concentrated from one year to the next. To avoid the evil “MSG” label, food here often uses sources other than the purified salt: seaweed extract, chicken extract, yeast extract, vegetable extract etc. Snack foods (crackers, potato crisps, cheese rings) use the straight salt, and, at least before “MSG” became contentious, so did Chinese restaurants here. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/48 "2020-02-17T01:02:14Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > To avoid the evil “MSG” label, food here often uses sources other than the purified salt: seaweed extract, chicken extract, yeast extract, vegetable extract etc. Snack foods (crackers, potato crisps, cheese rings) use the straight salt, and, at least before “MSG” became contentious, so did Chinese restaurants here. Same here in the US. There’s stuff like “autolyzed yeast extract” and “hydrolyzed corn/soy/vegetable protein,” etc. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/49 "2020-02-17T01:13:32Z")
\*\*@ Tuba Diva Jenny \*\* > [@](#): > > The column has been updated with a note from the Mayo Clinic site… Thank you for continuing the fight against ingnorance. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/50 "2020-02-17T04:32:40Z")
So someone goes to a “Chinese” restaurant, where they use different vegetables, different spices, and even different cuts of meats that your body is used to. Not to mention, the portions tend to be large. You have a odd reaction. Ok, sure. but why is it the MSG? why not the Five spice powder? or Szechuan peppercorns (which are not peppercorns at all) or Star Anise? Fennel? Black Fungus? Seaweed? Bitter Melon? Bok Choy? Various shellfish and fish? It could be any of a dozen things. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/51 "2020-02-17T04:36:43Z")
I am trying to update as possible; many of these columns were fine in their time but they’re old and need a bit of checking. We learn, we grow, and Cecil didn’t have access to what we do now back then … Y’all continue to help us get more up to date around here, that’s really great. Jenny your humble TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/52 "2020-02-17T05:33:36Z")
**@Tuba Diva** - Agreed, I don’t think it’s any negative reflection on the original research or column that in last XX years new information has come to light outdating the old. \*\*@ DrDeth \*\* > [@](#): > > …but why is it the MSG? It’s called the _illusion of causality_. Someone told Senegold about “Chinese restaurant syndrome” and his brain created a false causal link between his physical feelings and the MSG. It’s not Senegold’s fault, once that link is established it’s very very difficult to shake it. IMHO, it’s a cornerstone of what makes us human. When we tried that plant in the jungle and we felt sick afterward we never ate it again, even of that’s not what actually made us sick. Sometimes our causal brains are correct, sometimes not. On the whole however, a false positive (especially about about what hurts you) is evolutionarily better than a false negative. Our brains err on the side of the caution. A great example is vaccines and autism. A colleague’s son was diagnosed with autism a month after getting vaccinated and to her the vaccine is 100% causal. Like Senegold, no discussion of scientific studies etc will _ever_ change her mind. > **[Illusions of causality: how they bias our everyday thinking and how they...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488611/)** > > Illusions of causality occur when people develop the belief that there is a causal connection between two events that are actually unrelated. Such illusions have been proposed to underlie pseudoscience and superstitious thinking, sometimes leading to... > [@](#): > > Illusions of causality occur when people develop the belief that there is a causal connection between two events that are actually unrelated. Such illusions have been proposed to underlie pseudoscience and superstitious thinking, sometimes leading to disastrous consequences in relation to critical life areas, such as health, finances, and wellbeing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/53 "2020-02-17T15:31:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Sorry, **D’Anconia** and **RitterSport** , but I’m not able to see that display of items that DO have MSG. I am only able to pull up the list of items that do NOT have MSG. > [@Senegoid](#): > > What hole did you just pull your head out of? Did you not notice that **RitterSport** posted this same KFC information yesterday (Post #25) and that I acknowledged it (Post #26)? It’s ok to admit that you’re not great at using filters on websites. We’ll still like you. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/54 "2020-02-17T20:52:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so what’s outdated about it? It says that critics say bad things about it, but that there’s no conclusive evidence for what they’re saying. Is that not still accurate? " but critics say in its purified form it can be a potent neurotoxin, causing nerve cells literally to excite themselves to death". At the time of writing, that was true. Now, it would have to be re-written: “It is now known that in its purified form it is not a neurotoxin, and does not cause nerve cells literally to excite themselves to death”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/55 "2020-02-18T01:15:52Z")
Remember that everything is a toxin, and [favorite foods](https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/here-are-the-intriguing-toxins-that-spice-up-our-favorite-holiday-dishes/) are no exception. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/56 "2020-02-18T01:32:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Remember that everything is a toxin, and [favorite foods](https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/here-are-the-intriguing-toxins-that-spice-up-our-favorite-holiday-dishes/) are no exception. I’ll have the monosodium glutamate with chicken and vegetables, hold the chicken and vegetables. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/57 "2020-02-18T01:47:28Z")
It’s still a true statement. Critics do still say that. They’re wrong, but they say it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/58 "2020-02-18T09:45:06Z")
But it would be misleading to just say that without mentioning that it is a factually false position. It would be like a column on the MMR vaccine just saying “Critics say it causes autism”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/59 "2020-07-23T21:31:35Z")
It’s pretty harmless. Glutamine is a common amino acid. In small quantities, it doesn’t cause headaches in most people. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850/60 "2020-07-24T02:18:11Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > It’s pretty harmless. Glutamine is a common amino acid. In small quantities, it doesn’t cause headaches in most people… Say what? So you mean to suggest that in large quantities, it might cause headaches in some people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msg-bad-for-you/847850.md?page=4)