# Is MSNBC really news? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 11, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535 "2011-05-11T17:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/21 "2011-05-11T18:46:58Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > They lean left in the same manner and magnitude that Fox News leans right. Except that Fox doesn’t lean right. They are moderate; they’ll tee off on either side. But the other media is so far to the left that Fox’s being in the center makes them look right wing. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/22 "2011-05-11T18:53:39Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > They lean left in the same manner and magnitude that Fox News leans right. So my answer to the OP would be “sort of”. Please identify for me the 3 hour morning show on Fox that is hosted by a former Democratic congressman, the way that MSNBC runs Morning Joe every day hosted by former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough. I’ll hang up and listen to your response. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/23 "2011-05-11T18:56:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Except that Fox doesn’t lean right. They are moderate; they’ll tee off on either side. But the other media is so far to the left that Fox’s being in the center makes them look right wing. Bizzaro world reasoning. You are 180 degrees from the truth. The ‘main stream media’ has been pretty main stream for a long time. And the right has been bitching and moaning the whole time because it wasn’t the right wing spin they were looking for. Now that Fox ‘News’ is providing that spin, the Right in general thinks they’ve found the middle when they’ve really just found a nice comfy chair where they’ve been all along. The main stream media can’t be defined as left wing by virtue of the fact that it’s \*not \*right wing. That would be black-and-white thinking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/24 "2011-05-11T19:07:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Except that Fox doesn’t lean right. Sure they do. > [@](#): > > They are moderate; Meaningless. How can news be “moderate”. > [@](#): > > they’ll tee off on either side. They have a token lefty once in awhile. > [@](#): > > But the other media is so far to the left that Fox’s being in the center makes them look right wing. Common right-wing nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/25 "2011-05-11T19:12:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Except that Fox doesn’t lean right. They are moderate; they’ll tee off on either side. You’re totally right. They’ll attack liberals _and_ Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/26 "2011-05-11T19:12:07Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Please identify for me the 3 hour morning show on Fox that is hosted by a former Democratic congressman, the way that MSNBC runs Morning Joe every day hosted by former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough. I’ll hang up and listen to your response. Good point. And which network is run by a former Nixon operative? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/27 "2011-05-11T19:31:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > You’re totally right. > > They’ll attack liberals _and_ Democrats. I LOLed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/28 "2011-05-11T20:01:49Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think there is a striking similarity. > > Think about the whole Donald Trump idiocy. Their parent company very likely knows right now, because they signed up his Apprentice nonsense for another year, that he won’t be running. Which means all that coverage of his undeclared candidacy is just manipulation of the news for ratings. > > It’s not making something out of whole cloth, like Fox does, but it’s still pretty craven manipulation of supposed ‘news’ for profit. So lack of morality for cash seems to be common for both, in my opinion. MSNBC is not guilt free, but this might be the worst case of deliberate false news reporting by MSNBC. One of the things that irks me about Fox is having to defend MSNBC in comparison. They are both biased, and cherry pick news to suit their agendas, but Fox consistently makes intentional statements that are factually false in their news reports. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/29 "2011-05-11T21:02:33Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > Ok so > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNRACISzco&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNRACISzco&feature=related) > > thats some bias… > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHG4HJUOhc&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHG4HJUOhc&feature=related) > > i can continue but.. my guess is people who think like me are far and few between on this forum.. Pretty much by definition, anyone who agrees with me is not biased; they are centrist and moderate. Thus, on a board like this, you will never get some people to see bias. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/30 "2011-05-11T21:07:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Pretty much by definition, anyone who agrees with me is not biased; they are centrist and moderate. Thus, on a board like this, you will never get some people to see bias. > > Regards, > Shodan Come on, who here has been saying that Rachel Maddow, et al, are unbiased? The point here, anyway, isn’t to debate whether MSNBC is unbiased, it’s to debate whether or not it’s “news.” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/31 "2011-05-11T21:17:02Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Come on, who here has been saying that Rachel Maddow, et al, are unbiased? The point here, anyway, isn’t to debate whether MSNBC is unbiased, it’s to debate whether or not it’s “news.” It looked like an opportunity to bash Fox News. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/32 "2011-05-11T22:04:01Z")
OK. I moved on as soon as I saw the first one was Rachel Maddow. Of course it’s not news - but it never makes any attempt to convey itself as news. MSNBC does not carry news programs at night. The second one I have now listened to three times, and I have been unable to find the source of the outrage. Was it edited? Yes. Was it misleading? No. The question was a direct one - Is negotiating with Iran appeasement? And, were you talking about Obama? The parts that were edited don’t address those questions at all. It was a bunch of boilerplate about Al Queda and Israel, but never were the words “appeasement” or “Obama” mentioned at all. If you’re interviewing Albert Pujols about his three homerun night and he goes off on a tangent for five minutes talking about his stamp collection, there’s nothing wrong with cutting that part out. Would someone please point out the misleading part of the editing? “Appeasement” was being thrown around a lot by the right at that time due to it’s historical connection to the rise of Nazism, but it is not a synonym for talking or negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/33 "2011-05-11T22:46:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Schultz’ show is also not hard news, but for what it’s worth I think he’s fucking annoying. Ed Schultz is the liberal version of Rush Limbaugh. I pegged him as such as soon as “The Ed Show” started. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Except that Fox doesn’t lean right. You are indeed correct. They don’t “lean” right, they’ve completely tipped over and are now stuck on their right sides like a turtle on its back. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535/34 "2011-05-11T23:50:21Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > Ok so > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNRACISzco&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNRACISzco&feature=related) > > thats some bias… > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHG4HJUOhc&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHG4HJUOhc&feature=related) > > i can continue but.. my guess is people who think like me are far and few between on this forum.. I’m afraid your last sentence is wrong, but I hope you’re right. But since so many people here refuse to look at the clips, I’ll summarize them for you. The first clip is from the Rachel Maddow show, which has never pretended to be anything but a liberal commentary on news stories, unlike Fox, who claims to be “Fair and Balanced” even in its commentary. What’s more, her show is structured so that the hard news stories are at the beginning, and the last five minutes or so are escapist — either a comedy bit, or a tutorial on how to mix the cocktail of the week. This clip is from the comedic last segment of the show. The guy she is with is a comedian. He often dresses up in weird costumes to give a humorous slant on a story. To say this is MSNBC’s idea of news is ridiculous. Maddow, O’Donnell, et al are unabashedly biased in the stories they pick to cover, but they don’t deliberately lie or distort like Fox does. Your second clip is just wonderful. It is a PERFECT representation of the way Fox News watchers think. But it will take a fairly lengthy explanation to show what I mean. It is Glenn Beck doing what he does best, namely feigning outrage, this time over an NBC interview that he claims was edited to distort Bush’s words. The background, which I’ll quote from Andrew Breitbart’s website just to be fair, is here: > **[Breitbart News Network](https://www.breitbart.com/)** > > Syndicated news and opinion website providing continuously updated headlines to top news and analysis sources. In a nutshell, during the 2008 Presidential campaign, Barack Obama said that he would be willing to meet with the leaders of Iran. In a speech to Israel’s Knesset, President Bush said: "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. “We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: ‘Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.’ We have an obligation to call this what it is—the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.” Complete speech, where he explicitly associates the Iranian President with Osama Bin Laden and other evil terrorists, here: > **[President Bush Addresses Members of the Knesset](https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/05/20080515-1.html)** > > President Bush on Thursday said, "Over the past six decades, the Jewish people have established a state that would make that humble rabbi proud. You have raised a modern society in the Promised Land, a light unto the nations that preserves the legacy... Obama responded: “George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president’s extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel.” To which White House press secretary Dana Perino said that Bush’s remarks were not about Obama. A lot of people found that hard to believe, especially when, the very next day, Republican candidate John McCain said in a speech that Bush had brought up an excellent point, namely “why does Barack Obama want to sit down with a state sponsor of terrorism?” [http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/16/obama-responds-to-bush-mccain-on-appeasement/](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/16/obama-responds-to-bush-mccain-on-appeasement/) So in the clip that Glenn Beck showed, NBC correspondent Richard Engel asked Bush whether he was or was not accusing Obama of appeasement. And Bush did his usual non-denial of saying “People need to read the speech; you didn’t get it exactly right,” which is true in the sense that Engel did not quote it in its entirety, but he certainly didn’t distort it. Bush then rambled on about how fitting it was that he had talked about not taking the words of Hitler seriously, which had nothing to do with Engel’s question, and actually wasn’t in the speech. So NBC cut that part out, and just showed Engel repeating his question: Are negotiations with Iran appeasement? And Beck then shows the part they cut, and is outraged that NBC didn’t show it. THIS IS WHAT FOX DOES. THIS IS THE WAY FOX VIEWERS THINK. If a Dem criticizes a Republican for saying X, they don’t show the Rep’s original speech and let “you decide” whether the Dem is right, they show the Republican’s later explanation and spin of his speech, so that it always makes the Dem look like he is lying or distorting, when it is the Rep that is lying or distorting. And this was one of Beck’s better moments. He didn’t make shit up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-msnbc-really-news/581535.md?page=1)