# Is "Murc's Law" real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 1, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974 "2025-03-01T16:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/1 "2025-03-01T16:44:35Z")
Mentioned here: [You’ve Probably Never Heard of “Murc’s Law”, But You’ve Seen It in Action Lots of Times | Whereof One Can Speak 🇺🇦](https://whereofonecanspeak.com/2023/03/02/youve-probably-never-heard-of-murcs-law-but-youve-seen-it-in-action-lots-of-times/#:~:text=Murc%E2%80%99s%20Law%20is%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20widespread%20assumption%20that%20only,Democrats%20provoked%20them%20or%20failed%20to%20control%20them.) “Murc’s Law is “the widespread assumption that only Democrats have any agency or causal influence over American politics”. In other words, Democrats are responsible for Republicans being the way they are and doing the things they do, either because Democrats provoked them or failed to control them.” I think I’ve seen this used as an excuse from both the far right and the far left to blame Democrats for not doing enough to stop the right wing from taking power, focusing on the victim for not doing enough, while almost totally ignoring the actual perpetrators. Do any of you see this as a real problem? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/2 "2025-03-01T16:59:18Z")
I don’t see this as a real problem. Pure victim blaming. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/3 "2025-03-01T17:00:05Z")
I think the widespread use itself is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/4 "2025-03-01T17:12:45Z")
Reactionaries always claim the other side’s outrages are what drives them. It’s sorta right there in the name: “reactionary”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/5 "2025-03-01T18:27:58Z")
Trump just spent a day blame Ukraine for not giving up the country to Russia. The psychosis is not limited to Democrats. And psychosis it is. Assign blame where it belongs. The Democrats are not your Mommy and Daddy. Who are “the Democrats” anyway? The ones I’ve seen have been warning us about the Republicans for decades. I know I have. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/6 "2025-03-01T18:41:47Z")
Framing resistance as provocation is a favorite argument of bullies and rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/7 "2025-03-01T18:43:20Z")
I was just now wondering if there was a tie between those that now blame the left, and those that blame women. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/8 "2025-03-01T19:29:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Murc’s Law is “the widespread assumption that only Democrats have any agency or causal influence over American politics”. In other words, Democrats are responsible for Republicans being the way they are and doing the things they do, either because Democrats provoked them or failed to control them.” Yeah, I’ve seen this. It’s similar how some Americans blame America for everything that goes wrong in the world: “If only the U.S. had been nicer to Russia in the 1990s, Putin wouldn’t have come to power, so really, everything Russia does is America’s fault!” and shit like that. It’s a combination of self-flagellation and self-superiority: we’re responsible for everything, because we’re the only ones in the world who have agency; everyone else just acts out of instinct. It’s absurd, of course, and also kind of offensive. Non-Americans - and Republicans - are fully responsible for their own actions. Of course, that’s when people blame themselves. When non-liberals (or non-Americans) do it, they’re just being assholes. And usually liars. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/9 "2025-03-01T20:20:45Z")
It’s pure gaslighting and it’s been around forever. “Look what you made me do!” Call it out wherever you see it. It’s complete bullshit and just a way of deflecting accountability. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/10 "2025-03-01T20:25:16Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It’s pure gaslighting and it’s been around forever. “Look what you made me do!” Isn’t that what Oliver Hardy used to say to Stan Laurel? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/11 "2025-03-01T20:34:35Z")
In the deep, dark recesses of my ever-less-reliable memory, the answer is… yes. Also what many wife beaters rely on as a “defense.” ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/12 "2025-03-02T05:16:23Z")
Even though this sounds like a dig at the Democrats, giving them the blame for everything bad that happens, at a fundamental level its really a full castigation of the Republican party. If crime is up across the city, you blame the police not the criminals. Sure its really the criminals fault for committing so many crimes, but telling the criminals to stop criming is not going to achieve any results. You have to fault the police for not stopping them because they are the only ones you can influence to stop the problem. Saying its the Democrats fault for not stopping or not pandering to the Republicans is effectively admitting the that Republicans are immune to reason or influence. They are a bunch of temper tantruming infants with automatic weapons, and it unfortunately is the responsibility of the adults in the room to figure out how to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/13 "2025-03-02T12:51:17Z")
Besides the other reasons mentioned, in many cases it’s part of the whole conspiracy theory mentality that the Right is pervaded with. The fact that everything the Right touches is ruined isn’t _their_ fault, it’s the fault of the pervading, subtle influence of the Democrats/Deep State/Jews/Lizard People (take your pick). ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/14 "2025-03-07T13:33:50Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Even though this sounds like a dig at the Democrats, giving them the blame for everything bad that happens, at a fundamental level its really a full castigation of the Republican party. Not really that comforting. It’s the same sort of reasoning that led the Nazis to kill the Jews. “The Jews stabbed us in the back, we are only reactors.” AKA We’re in control and killing you but we’re going to pretend that you are the ones in power. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/15 "2025-03-10T19:39:57Z")
I don’t think it’s that people think only Democrats have influence, but rather, that trying to convince Republicans is futile, and everyone knows it. The best analogy I heard was that Republicans are like the Uvalde school shooter, while Democrats are like the Uvalde police who stood around and refused to intervene and stop the shooter. After the shooting, all the public outcry was directed at the police, not at the gunman. Why? Because the public knows perfectly well that 1) the gunman’s intention is to cause harm, and 2) reasoning with the gunman is useless. Whereas the job of the police is to try to _stop_ the gunman. It is totally logical that people would be more focused on the “police” for refusing to stop the shooting than on the gunman for causing the shooting. The gunman was simply doing what gunmen do. The police were **not** doing what police are supposed to do. Edit: **Buck Godot** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/16 "2025-03-10T19:55:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > while Democrats are like the Uvalde police who stood around and refused to intervene and stop the shooter. That analogy doesn’t work, not on this side. The Democrats ran solid campaigns and tried their very best to not let trump win. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/17 "2025-03-11T04:36:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It is totally logical that people would be more focused on the “police” for refusing to stop the shooting than on the gunman for causing the shooting. The gunman was simply doing what gunmen do. The police were **not** doing what police are supposed to do. What if the police are democratically controlled and keep pleading with the majority to be given power to go in and stop the gunman and the majority say “nah, we like the shooter”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/18 "2025-03-11T04:38:43Z")
What if you show us an actual example of this happening? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/19 "2025-03-11T04:41:47Z")
Your 2024 election. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-murcs-law-real/1014974/20 "2025-03-11T04:53:18Z")
By the way, this is also known as [DARVO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO) (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender).