# Is my brother going to jaiil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551 "2003-05-30T15:48:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/41 "2003-05-31T03:51:33Z")
**panache45** , where are you? I would like some clarification. How on earth did a bum like your brother get a credit card with a limit of 15k? I’ll bet many others here can answer this question, no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/42 "2003-05-31T04:01:49Z")
Many banks give such credit limits to unworthy people. Many banks also hire/outsource foreigners/Indians to do the work/credit analysis/computer programming of former americans which used to be employed at the bank. It is the banks decision to give money to who they want, and to lay off americans, and to hire foreigners. They are private companies, and can do what they want, this is a global economy now. The money that banks save by firing american workers, allows them to take bigger risks in who they give money to, and still make huge profits. Along with getting bigger profits, they also take some losses along the way, particularly if they had given credit to the same american who they laid off. Poetic justice, some would say. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/43 "2003-05-31T04:10:27Z")
You can guess that I have no sympathy for a bank, e.g. Bank of America, who fires its American workers, then gives/replaces his job to an Indian credit analyst/computer programmer, who then approves a $15,000 credit limit to the same former now unemployed Bank of America employee who was permanently laid off by that bank. The banks lobbied for the rights to do such things, and won. The American people voted for the laws which were changed to allow this. I dont necessarily think this is good the way we do things now in our global economy, but I cant fight you all. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Dragonstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonstar)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/44 "2003-05-31T04:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Archergal \* > \*\*[hijack] > > Yeah, if you don’t count child support that the owing party can’t afford to pay now. > > My S.O. has 2 employees that have gone to jail for non-payment of child support. In both cases, the child support was set when the person was making better $$. Now that they’ve been laid off from well-paying jobs, they don’t have enough $$ to hire a lawyer to get the payments reduced, and aren’t making enough working at a bookstore to pay at the original judgement. > > So they were hauled off to jail. How they’re supposed to make $$ to pay the child support from jail, I dunno. > > No argument that they _should_ pay child support, but jeez louise… > > [/hijack] \*\* Family law varies from state to state; in MN you can petition to have child support modified if there’s a substantial change in circumstances. Layoff from a high paying job and unemployment may be enough; and you don’t have to have an attorney, a copy of the layoff notice would likely be sufficient evidence of financial distress. Since unemployment/re-employment insurance doesn’t require you to take a job that pays less than the previous job, it could be argued that in taking a lower paying job the father was voluntarily reducing his income and would therefore be ineligible to modify support. IMO it sounds like they couldn’t be bothered to go to court. Plenty of people go without attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/45 "2003-05-31T04:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*A few clarifications: > > 1. I listened to my brother’s answering machine, and the closest thing to a threat was: “I don’t think you realize what a serious legal matter this is. Once the paperwork is submitted to the county sheriff, there will be no deals.” He really doesn’t mention specific consequences, so I don’t see an explicit threat here. > > \*\* If your brother files for bankruptcy, a(listed) creditor is prohibited from ever calling/contacting him again, or else they will be sued, and fined, and possilby put out of business. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/46 "2003-05-31T04:20:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Hand \* > > \*\*So much misinformation on this thread. \*\* You got that right. You know, there’s actually a lot of people on the board who know what they’re talking about on issues like this. Too bad they sometimes get drowned out by the guesses and outright garbage. Starting from the top: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ryan Mahoney_ > > \*\*At the point where it is handed over to a sheriff, it’s no longer an issue of wage garnishment or material reposession, it’s a legal matter concerning jail time. Much like a mortgage forclosure, he’ll be given notice that he has a very limited time to comply with a payment schedule or he will be given jail time. \*\* Wrong. As others have pointed out, the U.S. doesn’t have debtors’ prisons. The sole exception is imprisonment for contempt of court for failure to comply with a court order to turn over an asset or failure to comply with a payment schedule in a prior court order _agreed to by the debtor._ > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KellyM_ > > \*\* I don’t understand what purpose there would be in turning a debt over to the sheriff in the United States unless a mortgage was involved. In England, personalty of the debtor can be seized to cover the debt, but that practice was abolished in the United States.\*\* Wrong. Sheriffs collect civil debts all the time through property levies on personalty. (Do you even know what that word means? Personalty is property that isn’t real estate. It has nothing to do with the person of the debtor.) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KellyM_ > > **However, the UK does still allow for the seizure of personalty to satisfy a debt. United States law does not…** Still wrong. (this refers to the claim about U.S. law.) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mangeorge_ > > **Tell brother to give them the “finger”, wait out the seven (or whatever) years, and then start over. Free and clear. > Peace, > mangeorge** Wrong. You are confusing the length of time a debt remains on a credit report (usually 7 years) and limitations on how long a creditor has to sue and/or collect a debt. These latter limitations vary by state and type of debt. In my state (Illinois), a creditor via a wriiten contract has ten years to sue. After the debt is reduced to judgment, that judgment is good (with renewals) for 20 years. Total potential life of debt? Over 30 years. (10 + 20 + time between filing complaint and judgment.) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by handy_ > > \*\*“Please keep in mind that laws may vary from state to state, and different companies may resort to different legal tactics.” > > Yeah, maybe the OP can come along & tell us where they are?\*\* Good point, **handy**. (Never thought I’d say that.) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Reeder_ > > **If you take on an unsecured debt. There is nothing the creditors can do. They can’t take your house, your car or anything except your credit rating. The debt is just that…unsecured.** Wrong. Once an unsecured debt is reduced to judgment, all of your assets can be seized. (Sometimes, assets can be attached even prior to judgment, although this is rarely available. Also, there are certain categories of debtor property that are exempt from levy/seizure. These exemptions vary from state to state. In my state, these exemptions are fairly limited. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Fear Itself_ > > **There is no good reason to declare bankruptcy for unsecured debts, especially if you have no assets to protect. If you default on unsecured debt, it is on your credit report for seven years, then is falls off. If you declare bankruptcy, it sticks for ten years. Invoke the FDCPA, tell the collection agency to leave you alone (in writing!) and after seven years, that will be the end of it. Go forth and sin no more.** Mostly true, except for the seven year claim, which I’ve already addressed. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by NurseCarmen_ > > **IIRC, If he hasn’t paid a red cent in 2 years, he only has to wait it out five more years. If he pays them a penny today, it’s another seven more years.** Wrong. (This seven year myth is apparently more widespread than I thought.) **Nurse’s** second claim is a misunderstanding of the concept of reaffirmation of a debt, which is not automatically triggered by mere partial payment. So the answer to the OP is no, his brother won’t be arrested, unless he’s held in contempt of court for hiding an asset or failing to comply with an agreed payment schedule that was previously made part of a court order. (Thanks to all of the above misposters for the loss of a half hour’s sleep. Let someone who knows what they’re talking about (like **Bricker, Cliffy or Mr. Hand** ) answer the next legal question without burying their answer(s) with nonsense responses, okay? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/47 "2003-05-31T04:27:19Z")
**Random** , U.S. law does not allow the seizure of personalty _other than pursuant to a writ of execution_. UK law does, or at least used to. The bank could send a repossessor down to go through your house and take items that it felt were enough to meet the debt. Any surplus from the liquidation would be returned to you. They did not have to go to court before doing this. This practice is abolished in U.S. law. U.S. law only allows (absent a writ of execution) the seizure of collateral. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mr.Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Hand)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/48 "2003-05-31T04:33:11Z")
**KellyM** , that’s not necessarily true. Many states enable prejudgment writs of attachment. The due process clause of the U.S. Constitution limits the use of this remedy for creditors, but doesn’t eliminate it. BTW, for some further discussion of the statute of limitations issue raised by **Reeder** and the ability of collection agencies in Ohio to sue on unsecured debt, see this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3496405#post3496405). ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/49 "2003-05-31T04:42:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\ ***Random** , U.S. law does not allow the seizure of personalty _other than pursuant to a writ of execution_. UK law does, or at least used to. The bank could send a repossessor down to go through your house and take items that it felt were enough to meet the debt. Any surplus from the liquidation would be returned to you. They did not have to go to court before doing this. This practice is abolished in U.S. law. U.S. law only allows (absent a writ of execution) the seizure of collateral. \*\* Yes, but that’s not what you said earlier, is it? You claimed that an unsecured creditor could not collect from the assets of the debtor except though bankruptcy. That’s flat-out wrong. Also, there are other ways for a judgment creditor to grab assets without a levy. One way in my state is though a judicial order at the end of a citation to discover assets. (And you make it seem like writs of execution (a.k.a. levy and attachment) are some rarely available remedy. They’re not. Any judgment creditor can get one on request.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/50 "2003-05-31T05:18:08Z")
So long as we are picking nits, **Random** , the statutes of limitation on open ended credit (what we are talking about here) are 6 years or less in every state except Rhode Island, which is 10 years. [Statutes of limitation in the U.S.](http://fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html) In many states, debts from delinquent credit cards are out of statute in as little as three years. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/51 "2003-05-31T05:45:04Z")
Come on folks, before responding to a GQ, how about actually checking to see if your response is factually correct. Thanks to those who have tried to get this train wreck back on the rails. IAAL. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/52 "2003-05-31T13:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*So long as we are picking nits, **Random** , the statutes of limitation on open ended credit (what we are talking about here) are 6 years or less in every state except Rhode Island, which is 10 years. > > [Statutes of limitation in the U.S.](http://fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html) > > In many states, debts from delinquent credit cards are out of statute in as little as three years. \*\* **Fear** , you site is almost entirely wrong on applicable Illinois limiations periods, which it claims are 6 years for just about everything. (I suspect much of the other information there is similarly in error.) Here’s a cite to the actual law: [http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ch735/ch735act5articles/ch735act5Sub87.htm](http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ch735/ch735act5articles/ch735act5Sub87.htm) and [http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ch810/ch810act5articles/ch810act5Sub22.htm](http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ch810/ch810act5articles/ch810act5Sub22.htm) The first link brings you to the limitations section of the Illinois Code of Civil Procedure. Look at 13-205 and 13-206. 5 years oral contracts, 10 years where there’s a writing. The second link brings you to part of the UCC, as enacted in Illinois. Look at section 3-118. Note deletion of subsections (a) and (b). Now look at the unmodified UCC. (States often change parts they don’t like, as the above example shows.) [http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-118.html](http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-118.html) I guess I can’t blame you too much for trusting an apparently well-laid-out site, but in this case, it’s full of errors. In general, it’s good to be a little cautious when (a) a site making a legal claim has no cites no source, statutory or otherwise and (b) contradicts what lawyer(s) knowledgable in the area have already said. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/53 "2003-05-31T16:28:53Z")
So with some patience and perseverance, the brother can, in time (less than 6 years), emerge victorious. Cool. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![syntax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@syntax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syntax)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/54 "2003-05-31T17:23:23Z")
anyone know the laws for the UK? i have a friend who’s perhaps in the worse position as the brother. he seems to think that if he can run for 3 years then his debts are wiped. is this true? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/55 "2003-05-31T17:36:59Z")
Nope - his debts are wiped 3 years after declaring bankrupcy See [this Bakruptcy FAQ](http://www.insolvency.co.uk/legal/bankrfaq.htm) site ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/56 "2003-05-31T17:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*So with some patience and perseverance, the brother can, in time (less than 6 years), emerge victorious. Cool. 🆒 \*\* I give up. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/57 "2003-05-31T19:19:19Z")
😃 ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/58 "2003-06-01T12:15:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Random \* > \*\*I give up. \*\* Don’t give up! All of your answers appeared to be very accurate. The only thing I wanted to clarify, is where you said: " Wrong. Once an unsecured debt is reduced to judgment, all of your assets can be seized. " That is certainly true, but if one files for bankruptcy protection, then it depends on the individual state and the bankruptcy judge to decide if and what anything can be siezed under bankruptcy law. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/59 "2003-06-01T12:17:48Z")
Furthermore, “fraud” is something else. Hiding assets, lying on bankruptcy forms, taking money without"the intent to pay it back", can be prosecuted. As long as you are honestly in debt, you are ok, but if you try to play games, or try to steal money/fraud credit card companies, then you might get into serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551/60 "2003-06-02T17:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Don’t give up! All of your answers appeared to be very accurate. > > The only thing I wanted to clarify, is where you said: > > " Wrong. Once an unsecured debt is reduced to judgment, all of your assets can be seized. " > > That is certainly true, but if one files for bankruptcy protection, then it depends on the individual state and the bankruptcy judge to decide if and what anything can be siezed under bankruptcy law. \*\* Agree. (I was focusing on state, rather than federal bankruptcy law.) Filing bankruptcy stays the state court collection process. (The stay may be lifted by the bankruptcy court in some circumstances.) The assets would then be liquidated (in a Chapter 7 BK - Chapter 13 is different) under the supervision of the bankruptcy court. Also, as I said in a prior response, there is some property that is exempt from seizure, even if there is a judgment. These vary from state to state. In most states, these are limited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-brother-going-to-jaiil/178551.md?page=2)