# Is my friend's race preventing her from finding decent partners? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634 "2009-05-26T01:04:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/61 "2009-05-26T19:17:15Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > No, she has not approach anyone, she just noticed that those guys approached other girls. ‘Approach’ is getting kind of indefinite. Is she shy around men? Women can do a LOT to let me know they’re interested in me without ever making a definite move or putting themselves out there. Does she at least do that? Or is she a delicate flower who doesn’t even flirt? > [@Diamonds02](#): > > ON a platonic level it depends. Some of the guys she gets along with, others flat out hate her. Why don`t you ask some of the guys she does get along with why men aren`t interested in her? If they’re at all close they probably know. And more importantly, why on earth does anybody **flat out hate her**? Be specific. I’ll solve this mystery yet. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/62 "2009-05-26T19:19:43Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > No, she has not approach anyone, she just noticed that those guys approached other girls. > > ON a platonic level it depends. Some of the guys she gets along with, others flat out hate her. Things get real interesting right here… Why do some of the dudes in your social group hate her? That might be the key… ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/63 "2009-05-26T19:31:14Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > We all would like to think that there’s some reason why “WE” are special and can’t find what everyone else has. If something happens more than once or twice, it’s you. Believe me, it’s you. > > And I’m no different, I can’t find anyone. I have people say “Mark I can’t believe a guy like you can’t get a date.” “Would you like to go out with me.” “Oh GOD no.” > > People say I’m to fat or I’m too ugly to find a man. Did you ever go to city hall and see all the fat ugly people getting married? I have and there’s A LOT of them. > > If you can’t find anyone, your standards are probably too unique. Not too high but too unique and narrowly defined. > > People would say to me “Lower your ‘standards’,” so I did. All that happened is I met a lot of NICE people who I had no attraction to. And then it wasted my time, it made the other person feel bad and kept them from looking for someone who’d like them. In the end would you want to be with someone, who was only with you 'cause you felt you couldn’t do any better. Or you were too lazy and stopped looking. I understand what you mean, I had to lower my standards a few years ago to get action. But with this friend, I think it is in her best interest that she keeps her standards up, or stay single. > [@msmith537](#): > > Seriously though, who knows? I don’t know how diverse Kansas City is. I suspect not very. While “racism” might be too strong a word, there might definitely be some racial bias situation there. But what are you going to do? After reading some responses in this thread, telling her to get the hell out of KC. > [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > ‘Approach’ is getting kind of indefinite. Is she shy around men? Women can do a LOT to let me know they’re interested in me without ever making a definite move or putting themselves out there. Does she at least do that? Or is she a delicate flower who doesn’t even flirt? > > Why don`t you ask some of the guys she does get along with why men aren`t interested in her? If they’re at all close they probably know. > > And more importantly, why on earth does anybody **flat out hate her**? Be specific. I’ll solve this mystery yet. That naive thing. She’s one of the most naive people I’ve known in my life, and she is more naive than me. I consider myself as quite naive. Some people find her naivete a turn on, others are quite repulsed. Coincidently, it is those she tries to attract tend to be turned off by her naivete the most. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/64 "2009-05-26T19:40:45Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > She’s one of the most naive people I’ve known in my life, and she is more naive than me. I consider myself as quite naive. > > Some people find her naivete a turn on, others are quite repulsed. Coincidently, it is those she tries to attract tend to be turned off by her naivete the most. This may have great significance, and it can be changed without trying to alter one’s personality or basic self. It’s largely a matter of learning. Heck, reading The Straight Dope can dispel some degree of naivete. Some details on what the areas of naivete are, along with some relevant examples, may help us gain some insight and perhaps develop some concrete suggestions for improving the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/65 "2009-05-26T19:41:14Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Why do some of the dudes in your social group hate her? That might be the key… Oh, and some of them find her arrogant, which I don’t think is true. Arrogance can show up in body language, but, how would naivete show up with strangers, even before she opens her mouth? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/66 "2009-05-26T19:42:37Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > That naive thing. She’s one of the most naive people I’ve known in my life, and she is more naive than me. I consider myself as quite naive. > > Some people find her naivete a turn on, others are quite repulsed. Coincidently, it is those she tries to attract tend to be turned off by her naivete the most. I don`t really understand what you mean by naive. Could you give some examples? Particularly examples that either cause men to hate her or be turned on. I’m still curious how she tries to attract men too. You said men in grad school never approached her. But in my experience most women don’t wait to be approached. They might not actually pursue men but normally women meet me pretty close to halfway. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/67 "2009-05-26T19:46:59Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > Oh, and some of them find her arrogant, which I don’t think is true. If you could relate why they might perceive her as arrogant, that might be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/68 "2009-05-26T19:50:56Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > OK, Shemar Moore is gorgeous. What does “scary” tattoos mean? How do you know that guy wasn’t successful, ambitious, socially adept? Did you give him a chance beyond making a judgment about his teeth and tattoos? YMMV, but I believe that making judgements on gold teeth is valid. ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/69 "2009-05-26T19:58:39Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I don`t really understand what you mean by naive. Could you give some examples? Particularly examples that either cause men to hate her or be turned on. > > I’m still curious how she tries to attract men too. You said men in grad school never approached her. But in my experience most women don’t wait to be approached. They might not actually pursue men but normally women meet me pretty close to halfway. She’s just seem to be somewhat clueless on how the world works. A few weeks ago she was griping how smaller servings of ice cream are served at shops, without taking the economy into consideration. One guy was visibly annoyed at her comment. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > If you could relate why they might perceive her as arrogant, that might be helpful. Despite her moping about not being able to find any decent guys to date, she is very optimistic. She underestimates difficulty in tasks and time it takes to complete tasks. Outside of literal tasks, she just seem to underestimate challenges period. I think it has to do with her being naive about so many things, not being full of her self. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/70 "2009-05-26T20:10:21Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > She’s just seem to be somewhat clueless on how the world works. A few weeks ago she was griping how smaller servings of ice cream are served at shops, without taking the economy into consideration. One guy was visibly annoyed at her comment. First of all, that’s not a good example of naivety. I don`t expect to be shafted on my ice cream portions whenever the economy tanks. I’ve never run an ice creamery, but I’ve also never run a business with the strategy to screw over my customer anytime the economy takes a downturn. If my ice cream ingredient prices were rising rapidly I might decrease portion size to stall the necessity of a price increase. Second, if that’s all it takes to flat out hate someone in Kansas City, you both need to get the fuck out. Is it possible she said it in a way that was **incredibly** obnoxious? If I got shafted out of a full scoop of ice cream I would expect all my companions to be upset for me. Who gets visibly annoyed about something like that? I can’t think of a more sympathetic image than a slim-waisted big-breasted latin chick who got less ice cream than she deserved. No wait, if it was on an ice cream cone and the ice cream fell off into the dirt. That would be even more sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/71 "2009-05-26T20:12:52Z")
**Diamonds02** , is there a chance that you look ghetto and people think your friend is ghetto by association? ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/72 "2009-05-26T20:26:47Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > First of all, that’s not a good example of naivety. I don`t expect to be shafted on my ice cream portions whenever the economy tanks. I’ve never run an ice creamery, but I’ve also never run a business with the strategy to screw over my customer anytime the economy takes a downturn. If my ice cream ingredient prices were rising rapidly I might decrease portion size to stall the necessity of a price increase. > > Second, if that’s all it takes to flat out hate someone in Kansas City, you both need to get the fuck out. Is it possible she said it in a way that was **incredibly** obnoxious? If I got shafted out of a full scoop of ice cream I would expect all my companions to be upset for me. Who gets visibly annoyed about something like that? > > I can’t think of a more sympathetic image than a slim-waisted big-breasted latin chick who got less ice cream than she deserved. > > No wait, if it was on an ice cream cone and the ice cream fell off into the dirt. That would be even more sympathetic. Ok, lets try another example. At parties she asks why certain people aren’t drinking, while it is well known that certain people we know are pregnant, are on medication, are desginated drivers, or recovering alcoholics. She thinks they are just being party-poopers without even considering that there are other reasons why some people don’t drink. > [@msmith537](#): > > **Diamonds02** , is there a chance that you look ghetto and people think your friend is ghetto by association? Hell no! LOL ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/73 "2009-05-26T20:34:58Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > Ok, lets try another example. At parties she asks why certain people aren’t drinking, while it is well known that certain people we know are pregnant, are on medication, are desginated drivers, or recovering alcoholics. She thinks they are just being party-poopers without even considering that there are other reasons why some people don’t drink. Oh, and I forgot this example. She likes to drink but only stuff like Mike’s Hard Lemonade, she doesn’t know that much about alcohol outside of that. She made a playful jab at one guy (who we didn’t know) that he was drinking water at a bar, she was trying to flirt with him, it turned out to be vodka and sprite on the rocks. He told me to “get that annoying girl away from him”. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/74 "2009-05-26T20:45:05Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > Oh, and I forgot this example. She likes to drink but only stuff like Mike’s Hard Lemonade, she doesn’t know that much about alcohol outside of that. She made a playful jab at one guy (who we didn’t know) that he was drinking water at a bar, she was trying to flirt with him, it turned out to be vodka and sprite on the rocks. He told me to “get that annoying girl away from him”. It’s starting to sound like she’s just lacking in social grace, particularly as it relates to flirting. For one thing, based on your examples I’d describe her as ditzy, not naive. Do you think that’s fair? Second, I have a hunch that she managed to deliver all 3 examples in a way that was irritating. Women do ditzy things ALL the time, but men usually ignore them because we like women. (Men probably do it too but I don`t usually listen to what men are saying) Unless everything you say is ditzy or you are unattractive, you really need to go the extra mile and find your own special way to be annoying. For example, if an attractive woman asked me why I was sipping water out of a cocktail glass, I’d offer her a sip of my martini. So, I already said her race probably isn’t helping. And I still think the youthful appearance is a big drawback. But I think the girl just needs to get better at flirting with and attracting guys. Maybe she could generally improve her social interactions with people. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/75 "2009-05-26T20:46:39Z")
I think I’m getting a good picture of why she’s not attracting men–she’s obnoxious. I haven’t even met her, and I want to reach into the computer and slap the hell out of her. That’s not being naive, that’s being utterly, utterly lacking in social skills and never stopping to think about anyone besides herself. It’s not attractive. ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/76 "2009-05-26T20:50:26Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > It’s starting to sound like she’s just lacking in social grace, particularly as it relates to flirting. For one thing, based on your examples I’d describe her as ditzy, not naive. Do you think that’s fair? I agree with this. In your examples with the drinking/parties, she’s coming off as both judgemental and annoying. I’m a drinker, but if someone started pestering me about my choice of drink at a party, regardless of what it was, I’d be annoyed, and not inclined to flirt with the person who couldn’t come up with a better line than “accusing” me of drinking water. Nobody wants a date with the drink police. You say she’s intelligent, and she may be, but she doesn’t sound smart when it comes to interacting with people. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/77 "2009-05-26T21:01:34Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > And, oh, do any of your peers give any reason why they are not attracted to black women? Personally, it’s the face. Big lips, broad nose=ugly. Then there’s the color issue. The darker, the worse, for some reason. I like my girls Swedish-colored. Not like the fish, though. I’m guessing your friend’s problem is either that she’s ugly or that her voice pierces ears like daggers. Maybe she talks too much. Or not enough. But I’m betting it’s the ugly part. You’re her friend and you’re rating her at a 7. That means she’s really a 4. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/78 "2009-05-26T21:10:06Z")
I’d agree, it sounds like she may have book smarts but is lacking in everyday wisdom. She may do well to try to develop a habit of resisting blurting out the first thought that comes to her. In the ice cream example, something like “Is it just me, or are these smaller scoops than last time?” would probably go over better than “What a ripoff! They’re serving smaller scoops!” In the party example, one would hope that a moment’s reflection would result in realizing that not everyone drinks alcohol. In the guy at the bar example, I don’t know - making a joke or playful jab could be a way to break the ice, but perhaps it was painfully unclever or the delivery gave the wrong impression. Coming on too forcefully with comments that aren’t well thought out can be offputting. If she can find a way to soften her approach it might help smooth things out. As to her looks, like I said many posts ago, they may be a hindrance but they aren’t an insurmountable obstacle. Virtually all types of people - dark, light, stout, slim, tall, short, etc. - are appealing to some. In a given culture, some types are regarded as more attractive than others, but that doesn’t mean that everybody favors those types, just that more people do. Her appearance may well be a factor in meeting people, but it’s not the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/79 "2009-05-26T21:12:41Z")
Before even reading through this thread, my answer was “No.” Now it’s “Hell no.” Only someone who doesn’t know what the heck is going on would think it’s her race. “I’m awesome in every way, so surely it’s because I’m Hispanic!” Right. Hispanic and lame. ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634/80 "2009-05-26T21:54:10Z")
How do you guys think this trait may manifest in body language and appearance? It would be weird if people are able to smell this on her before she even opens her mouth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-friends-race-preventing-her-from-finding-decent-partners/497634.md?page=5)