# Is my nephew a dope? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838 "2014-10-29T05:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/41 "2014-10-29T17:40:23Z")
Here is the problem with your nephew’s decision. He got a college education in his preferred field of marketing. He got an internship in this field to add real world experience that could lead to a job offer. Then he got a full time, reasonably compensated job offer. Right on track. He could pay his bills, get a place, establish credibility and contacts within his chosen field and make the natural progression up the ladder of life. This is how life works, if you are lucky, your foot gets on the bottom rung of the ladder of success. And he turned the job offer down!!! Now the real problem is trying to re-enter a field that isn’t going to wait for him. The longer the gap in the employment history in marketing, the worse it will look to his next prospective employer. Why the gap? Were you fired or found otherwise unsuitable at the last marketing job? Decided to take a break and learn about the dry cleaning business? Can you tell us more? He is going to look like he had a flaw that prevented him from moving forward or he is going to look like an idiot to all of his future employment prospects. The longer the gap between his actual application of his training, the worst it will look to the next person who may be interested in hiring him, for less money probably, if he is offered at all. They are making new graduates every day and he just stepped out of line in the climb up the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/42 "2014-10-29T17:49:57Z")
I’m with those who say there’s no reason that would justify him not taking this job. Even if he took it and then jumped ship two weeks later when he found his dream job, he should have accepted it. Even if every second at that insurance company was a grinding, soul-sucking torture, he should have accepted it. This is the kind of mistake that will permanently impair his earnings, for the rest of his life. Well, OK, that’s not guaranteed necessarily. But as others have said, the 80k job is hiring from people who already have the 40k job. The 120k job is hiring from the 80k applicants. The 200k job is looking for the 120k applicants. By refusing the position, he’s put himself back at needing to do another internship just to get another 40k offer. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/43 "2014-10-29T18:27:03Z")
Have you considered that he didn’t actually get offered the job and made up the story to look good to his family/friends? Kind of like when I dumped my girlfriend in high school, or at least that’s what I told people… ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/44 "2014-10-29T18:29:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > How much do straight out of school, wet-behind-the-ears engineers make these days? (and what kind of engineers are we talking about?) I work at a major defense contractor that is not based in a major metropolitan area and we start them between $60-70 here. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/45 "2014-10-29T18:36:34Z")
All signs point to dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/46 "2014-10-29T19:33:12Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Have you considered that he didn’t actually get offered the job and made up the story to look good to his family/friends? Kind of like when I dumped my girlfriend in high school, or at least that’s what I told people… No. My wife saw the offer letter back in May. Her sister was showing it at his graduation party that I didn’t get to attend. After he declined the offer this hasn’t been anything I’ve given a care about. I had thought he got some other career position. But we’re going on vacation next month with my s-i-l/B-i-l and I guess my nephew was giving them shit for not offering to take him too and pay his way. So my B-I-L starts telling me what a dip shit his kid is and my S-I-L starts defending her baby. For a few minutes it wasn’t pretty. :rolleyes: Glad he isn’t coming with, though! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/47 "2014-10-29T19:47:54Z")
> [@astro](#): > > However, assuming he had 9 months with this company he might have developed a distaste for the environment and did not want to work there. Some marketing jobs and sales positions are soul destroying pits of torment regardless of what they pay. Agreed with this–if the atmosphere is terrible, it’s better to look elsewhere. > [@monstro](#): > > I’m loathed to call young people stupid. Assuming the nephew turned down a job for the reason stated in the OP, yes, it was an incredibly stupid decision. However, it is easy to think this only because it hasn’t worked out yet. For all we know, tomorrow he could get hired for his “dream job”. Also with this. The age of majority is, in many ways, rising. Kids are treated like kids, expected to be kids, for longer than in the past. Making dumb mistakes when you’re a kid is expected. This might have been a mistake, but it’s a lot milder than a lot of dumb things done by 21-year-olds. > [@pkbites](#): > > After he declined the offer this hasn’t been anything I’ve given a care about. I had thought he got some other career position. But we’re going on vacation next month with my s-i-l/B-i-l and I guess my nephew was giving them shit for not offering to take him too and pay his way. So my B-I-L starts telling me what a dip shit his kid is and my S-I-L starts defending her baby. For a few minutes it wasn’t pretty. :rolleyes: Yeah, that’s a bit much. Sounds like he’s not entirely out of the mindset of being a kid. Not taking him on vacation is a good step toward helping him along, but I kind of think mama and papa bird need to nudge him out of the nest. I wonder–will it be a red flag on his resume that he worked this unpaid internship and did NOT get hired by the firm? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/48 "2014-10-29T19:51:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > No. My wife saw the offer letter back in May. Her sister was showing it at his graduation party that I didn’t get to attend. :dubious: Wow, that sounds tacky as hell. He a serious mommas boy? ---
**Author:** ![CinnamonBabka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@CinnamonBabka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CinnamonBabka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/49 "2014-10-29T20:00:27Z")
Have you asked what jobs he’s been applying for and not getting callbacks for? I’m getting the vibe that this guy isn’t applying to any other 42k/yr jobs just to test the waters on what sort of offers he can get and is blaming the job market for the fact that he’s not getting callbacks for jobs he’s not qualified for. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/50 "2014-10-29T20:02:42Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > He actually wanted the job but was insulted at the pay offer. Whether it was negotiable I know not. I also don’t know what he thought he was worth. Was it really because of the pay, or was it because of the [blow job](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYJCHoEDNgs)? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/51 "2014-10-29T20:14:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > How much do straight out of school, wet-behind-the-ears engineers make these days? (and what kind of engineers are we talking about?) I am an electrical engineer and I made $58k on day one (four years ago) with guaranteed raises at 6 months and a year. I live in a cheap area in the Midwest, and my company pays lower than average. And that was with only a bachelor’s degree. I understand civil engineers make less and nuclear or petroleum engineers make more. A quick google search returned [this chart](http://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/). ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/52 "2014-10-29T22:15:41Z")
I’m torn. I followed my bliss, have been working in the same field for thirty years, and make less money than he turned down and don’t have benefits. My knee jerk reaction is that he’s made a terrible, terrible decision. But maybe there was something about working there that he hasn’t talked about that outweighed the salary and benefits. And to echo **pulykamell** , what better time than when you’re 21 to be making bonehead career/life decisions? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/53 "2014-10-29T22:15:49Z")
Organizations these days are pretty aware of the current job market, and aren’t going to penalize a recent grad for taking a while to find a first job, assuming the grad can do a decent job spinning his story. It’s just not the red flag it used to be. Do we know that he still wants to be in marketing? That was my problem-- in undergrad I discovered I wasn’t cut out for a career in the field I had chosen to study. It took a long time to admit that to myself, and even longer to explain to those who invested in my education. Another not-ideal situation, but if you want to do a career change there is no better time than when you are young. ---
**Author:** ![CalBak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@CalBak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalBak)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/54 "2014-10-29T23:09:00Z")
Making a stupid decision doesn’t make you stupid. Making them consistently does. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/55 "2014-10-30T01:09:13Z")
> [@CalBak](#): > > Making a stupid decision doesn’t make you stupid. Making them consistently does. no, I think he’s still stupid. why? because he turned down a decent-paying job which was handed to him, and is now bitching because he can’t find a job. That is a special kind of clueless that you only encounter once in a very great while. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/56 "2014-10-30T01:11:40Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > no, I think he’s still stupid. why? because he turned down a decent-paying job which was handed to him, and is now bitching because he can’t find a job. That is a special kind of clueless that you only encounter once in a very great while. You must know a better set of people than I do. This kind of stupidity seems to be the rule rather than the exception. It’s still stupid, I definitely agree with you there. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/57 "2014-10-30T02:15:41Z")
I think it’s something he’ll very likely look back on a few years later and go :smack: - what was I thinking? $42K would be a very nice starting salary to work with. I wouldn’t call it “stupid” because it’s also VERY common for young people to be overly ambitious (“if I aim for the stars I might hit Paris”), and think they’re the next Warren Buffett until the world convinces them otherwise by brute force. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/58 "2014-10-30T02:20:07Z")
The average starting base salary for all college graduates is 45k, so he was being offered 3k less than that. I’m in my late 30’s and looking at what that would be in '99, around the time I started looking for a job, that would be less than 30k, certainly nothing to jump at, and definately nothing close to an impressive offer. So, I guess I am not really seeing how this is considered some sort of incredible opportunity you would be crazy to pass up on. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/59 "2014-10-30T02:33:54Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > \*\*The average starting base salary for all college graduates is 45k, so he was being offered 3k less than that. \*\* This is heavily skewed by major, profession and region. An engineering grad offered an aerospace engineering job in Seattle or San Francisco could reasonably scoff at a $42k offer. A history grad offered a research job in small-town Nebraska would probably be very grateful for $42k. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838/60 "2014-10-30T02:47:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is heavily skewed by major, profession and region. > An engineering grad offered an aerospace engineering job in Seattle or San Francisco could reasonably scoff at a $42k offer. > A history grad offered a research job in small-town Nebraska would probably be very grateful for $42k. You make a very valid point. The general thrust of what i’m saying though is that there is nothing so extreme about this figure that the only way one would turn it down is if they were incredibly stupid or unrealistic. No matter the major, I don’t see 42k as a particulary out of the ordinary offer, and I have not seen any real data in the thread to contradict this sentiment. It seems like it was just an offer; not particularly bad but not unbelievably great either - from this perspective, nothing in particular can be inferred about the young man’s character or decision making ability from rejecting this offer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-nephew-a-dope/702838.md?page=4)