# Is my personnel file "mine"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 7, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257 "2009-07-07T21:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/21 "2009-07-08T04:36:26Z")
**Drippin** the more you post the more it seems that you are a head case. If you are on the “do not rehire” list I would not be surprised at all. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/22 "2009-07-08T11:58:44Z")
> [@Dripping](#): > > How on earth could anyone charge me with theft of the file if they had no evidence of me “stealing” it? Imagine how foolish you would look/feel if you denied the theft under oath, then their attorney played the video… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/23 "2009-07-08T12:30:47Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Imagine how foolish you would look/feel if you denied the theft under oath, then their attorney played the video… I would imagine the employer’s attorney would not be allowed to introduce evidence that had not been disclosed during discovery. If it was disclosed during discovery, I doubt the employee would contradict it in testimony. Trials rarely happen the way you see on television. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/24 "2009-07-08T12:48:20Z")
> [@Dripping](#): > > I do appreciate your advice, but the thing is they could not possibly prove I took it. The file would just “be missing” the next time they looked for it. How on earth could anyone charge me with theft of the file if they had no evidence of me “stealing” it? > > And again, I don’t feel that me taking a file full of info about me is “stealing” in the first place…it’s my personal information… Why did you post this thread in the first place? You asked if the file was yours, and you’ve been told unequivocally that it is not yours, though you may have some rights to see it. You assert that the information in it is “my personal information” but you’ve been shown that the information in there, while it may be [babout\*\* you is not your information. If you don’t want to accept that the file isn’t yours, and persist in believing you have a right to appropriate its contents in an illegal fashion, what was the point to the question you asked in the first place??? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/25 "2009-07-08T12:53:01Z")
> [@El\_Zagna](#): > > If you work in the public sector you can access your personnel file under the Freedom of Information Act. Actually you can access any public servant’s personnel file. Actually, while the first part of your statement is true with respect to federal employees (see the 1974 amendments to the FOIA), the second part of your statement is false in general. Personnel records are specifically exempted from the FOIA, as well as from most state acts of similar nature. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/26 "2009-07-08T12:57:11Z")
What would be the purpose in stealing it? Do you think all the negativity will just disappear if you do so? Given that you are quitting soon, they will likely discover that it is missing shortly thereafter when they go to insert the appropriate paperwork and naturally suspicion will fall on you. Even if they can’t prove anything, they may become even more motivated to repopulate it with whatever copies of “write ups” and performance appraisals your supervisor may have on hand. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/27 "2009-07-08T13:00:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would imagine the employer’s attorney would not be allowed to introduce evidence that had not been disclosed during discovery. If it was disclosed during discovery, I doubt the employee would contradict it in testimony. Trials rarely happen the way you see on television. But Perry Mason once…😉 Bummer. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/28 "2009-07-08T13:15:44Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Actually, while the first part of your statement is true with respect to federal employees (see the 1974 amendments to the FOIA), the second part of your statement is false in general. Personnel records are specifically exempted from the FOIA, as well as from most state acts of similar nature. You’re right. I was basing my claim on a memory that’s decades old. Sorry. I once managed to get some personnel information on a boss I was butting heads with, but I obtained it from indirect sources. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/29 "2009-07-08T13:48:34Z")
> [@El\_Zagna](#): > > I once managed to get some personnel information on a boss I was butting heads with, but I obtained it from indirect sources. Did he get your goat? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/30 "2009-07-08T15:09:25Z")
> [@Dripping](#): > > I do appreciate your advice, but the thing is they could not possibly prove I took it. The file would just “be missing” the next time they looked for it. How on earth could anyone charge me with theft of the file if they had no evidence of me “stealing” it? > > And again, I don’t feel that me taking a file full of info about me is “stealing” in the first place…it’s my personal information… You don’t think that the supervisor you already have had problems with wouldn’t love to get you this way? That nobody would suspect you had taken it? Unless your HR office is handled by somebody who misplaces a file every other day, then the first thing they would suspect is that you took it, because you’re the only one with an interest in it. You will loose all goodwill from the manager above who you said stepped between your supervisor and you before. You will open yourself to serious accusations. I don’t think the worst they could do is to fire you; I think they could also go to court against you, because you are stealing from the company. It doesn’t matter to the law that you’re going soon or feel that the content belong to you - the law says it’s stealing, so you will get in trouble\*. Don’t hand somebody who already hates you a charged canon to shoot you in the foot! - In Germany, people have been reprimanded and fired for taking an envelope to send a private letter, even when everybody else in the office was doing it, or for eating one bread spread on their break from the supermarket. The amount of worth was trivial, but the courts argued “Taking anything for your personal interests from the employeer is stealing, and a severe breach of the trust the employer places onto the employees. The employer can never trust you again after this breach of confidence, and thus somebody who worked for 20 years without any problems can be fired on the spot.” ---
**Author:** ![FalconFinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@FalconFinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FalconFinder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/31 "2009-07-08T15:49:49Z")
When the company I worked at for 17 years fired me (long story and I have them under investigation for it), I was told I would have access to my file. They ignored my request, which was placed BEFORE I was fired and despite the fact that I kept on them about when I could see my file. I filed a complaint with the state the second I got home after being fired. The company would not let me come to see my file, but instead xeroxed it off and sent it to me after I was fired. I complained again to the state because I was not allowed to see my file in person, so the company was forced to allow me to come in and compare my copy to theirs. There were a few documents missing – nothing important, it was the principle of the thing – so I was able to make the copies and take home with me. Now, I’m in IL, so I had those rights, but check with your state’s laws and you may have a similar option. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/32 "2009-07-08T16:11:03Z")
> [@Dripping](#): > > They can’t charge me with theft if they don’t have proof. They might not be able to _convict_ you, but I’m pretty sure they could charge you. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/33 "2009-07-08T16:29:11Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > If it’s too much trouble could the OP’s manager be sued for libel? We know of a case where the manager was filling the file with bogus complaints. A libel suit is now in the courts. The managers friends are now filing nuisance suits against other managers not related to the case. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/34 "2009-07-08T18:07:16Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Never worked under a union contract that even mentioned my personnel file. In the cases that I have heard about the union rep or lawyer state and federal labor laws the get the employee reinstated. The wording might not refer to “personnel file,” but to your rights to copies of disciplinary actions against you or wording more like that. A union contract may give you more rights than state law. Unless you work for the feds, I don’t think federal law is providing you any rights here. Federal law does have some requirements related to the confidentiality of items in the personnel file. Here is a site that gives a state-by-state listing. See Misssissippi for a state that gives no employee rights and Massachusetts for a state with employee rights in this regard: [http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=281&state=MS](http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=281&state=MS) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/35 "2009-07-08T18:46:05Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Did he get your goat? 😛 NO, or rather nah-ah-ah-ah… The guy in question was a world class jackass who was hired to shake up the IT staff. He hated me and I hated him, and it was obvious that I was going to be be fired unless I got him fired first. I managed to get a copy of his resume in which he claimed to have an MBA from a particular university. I called the university and, while they wouldn’t let me see his transcript, they would confirm his degrees, and sure enough, there was no MBA. So that, plus his basic incompetence, was enough to force him to resign. It was a very satisfying moment in my rather dull and uneventful career. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/36 "2009-07-09T02:38:03Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > The wording might not refer to “personnel file,” but to your rights to copies of disciplinary actions against you or wording more like that. A union contract may give you more rights than state law. Unless you work for the feds, I don’t think federal law is providing you any rights here. Federal law does have some requirements related to the confidentiality of items in the personnel file. > > Here is a site that gives a state-by-state listing. See Misssissippi for a state that gives no employee rights and Massachusetts for a state with employee rights in this regard: [http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=281&state=MS](http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=281&state=MS) There is no such wording. What the union will do is back a member using state and federal laws not the contract. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/37 "2009-07-20T16:32:26Z")
> [@Dripping](#): > > Just to clarify here, I could easily take the file, I can just get there a few minutes early, go in, grab it. They can’t charge me with theft if they don’t have proof. > > And besides, what exactly would they claim I have stolen? It’s a bunch of info about me; I no longer work for them. The information is valueless, what have they lost? What has been “stolen”? Probably best that you leave well enough alone. It’s dangerous to mess around with powers higher than yourself, especially if they can nail you for theft. You’re quitting anyway, how can they use that information against you? It’s against the law for them to use that information against you. Just walk away…walk away, and consider yourself lucky to be free of them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257/38 "2009-07-20T18:29:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would imagine the employer’s attorney would not be allowed to introduce evidence that had not been disclosed during discovery. If it was disclosed during discovery, I doubt the employee would contradict it in testimony. Trials rarely happen the way you see on television. They could certainly depose him before disclosing the existence of the videotape. That would be good enough. **Dripping** , most of the bulk of your personnel file will be new hire paperwork (possibly including a copy of your employee handbook) and payroll records. I imagine they’ll freely show you any disciplinary records if you ask. Don’t steal the file. It’s their property, worthless or not - and since they are required to maintain it by Federal (and probably state and local) law, the consequences for stealing it could be more severe than simple petty theft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-personnel-file-mine/502257.md?page=1)