# Is my understanding of what Papa John's CEO said accurate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039 "2018-07-16T20:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/21 "2018-07-16T22:01:13Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think it’s likely (based on no proof) that this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. When I’ve seen people let go for harassment or inappropriate behavior or inappropriate jokes, it has never been the case that people are confused. Mostly it’s, “well, it’s about time. I can’t believe it took that long.” > > In this case, he may have had a history of inappropriate or racist behavior, but this is the one that just took it too far. I think there was a third party on the phone at the time (marketing firm?), and maybe that also played into the decision. > > Also, his argument seems to be, well, the football thing may make me seem racist, but I’m not as racist as Colonel Sanders. As you say, that’s a pretty weak argument. He’s racist, but at least he keeps his n-words to himself! I think that’s an important point and that it’s really impossible to decide, without all the other context, whether is behavior in that instance merited an ouster. If his record was clean in the past, then probably not. If his record wasn’t so clean, then maybe it did merited the ouster. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/22 "2018-07-16T22:01:18Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Sorry - thought the thread was about excessively trivial racial slur complaints, and some people’s tendency to see imaginary racial slights because of their hypersensitivity. Then, thank you for your un-cited anecdote. You don’t mention what the fallout was, so I didn’t see how it would apply. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/23 "2018-07-16T22:07:58Z")
Does anyone dispute that if instead of the slur that he used the phrase “the n word” that he wouldn’t have lost his job? I think it is terribly childish to restrict speech in that manner. Note how nobody in this thread after the OP used the word. We use all kinds of terrible words on this board all of the time, but not that one? You may say that is the worst of all because of the offensive nature of it, but that is my point. Nobody in this thread has referred to that word in an offensive nature and arguably the CEO did not either. Are we in a modern age of infantile discussion where certain words are simply banned? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/24 "2018-07-16T22:14:20Z")
Just of record, when looking to see if Col. Sanders actually did say N\*\*\*\*r I found [this](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/145/transcript) > [@](#): > > Mark Schone as head of public relations for Kentucky Fried Chicken in the late '70s, Ray Callender traveled the country with the Colonel for several years. He had to kick his boss under the table sometimes to stop him griping to the press about the declining quality of Kentucky Fried Chicken, and he heard a lot of salty language in the back of the Colonel’s white Caddy. But as a black man riding shotgun for the very emblem of white southernness, Callender never once caught Sanders saying the n-word. > > Ray Callender: > > > [@](#): > > > > And the only close incident that came like that was when he was writing his own little speech in preparation for whatever was going on, and he turned to me and said, he wanted to know what us nice folks were calling ourselves these days. And I looked up and I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, is-- his term was-- he didn’t say nigger. It was Negra. And I said, oh, this is where it comes to a stop. Nowadays we call ourselves black. And then he would say, Well, I wouldn’t call you nice folks black. To the Colonel, black was a derogatory term to him. And you can imagine coming through that time, that’s-- he was raised in that environment. So not only is it a bad argument, its also false. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/25 "2018-07-16T22:18:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Does anyone dispute that if instead of the slur that he used the phrase “the n word” that he wouldn’t have lost his job? > > I think it is terribly childish to restrict speech in that manner. Note how nobody in this thread after the OP used the word. We use all kinds of terrible words on this board all of the time, but not that one? > > You may say that is the worst of all because of the offensive nature of it, but that is my point. Nobody in this thread has referred to that word in an offensive nature and arguably the CEO did not either. Are we in a modern age of infantile discussion where certain words are simply banned? If it was clear from the context in the room that he was using the Colonel’s hypothetical racism to excuse his own racist behavior, then I don’t think it would have mattered whether he used n-word or nigger. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/26 "2018-07-16T22:19:27Z")
Is he in a right-to-work state? If so, they can fire him for any reason they like. God bless America! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/27 "2018-07-16T22:23:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I think we could all agree that if he said exactly “the n word” instead of using the word, he would have kept his job. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Does anyone dispute that if instead of the slur that he used the phrase “the n word” that he wouldn’t have lost his job? I don’t get why you’re so keen about this point. As far as I can tell, you repeatedly figure that all of us will agree that he wouldn’t have lost his job if he’d just said “the n word” instead. It seems obvious to you, to the point where you think that must be the unanimous opinion hereabouts. And this guy was _too stupid to do that_. You keep saying we can all agree that he just had to make that one easy change — and, well, he’s _too stupid to do that_. He had an easy task in front of him, and he’s just _too stupid to do that_. Of course I’d want to fire that guy! What the heck would he stupidly bungle next? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/28 "2018-07-16T22:25:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is he in a right-to-work state? If so, they can fire him for any reason they like. God bless America! I think you mean an at-will employment state. Right-to-work states are places where you can work in union shops without being in the union (I believe). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/29 "2018-07-16T22:43:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think you mean an at-will employment state. Right-to-work states are places where you can work in union shops without being in the union (I believe). Huh, I’d thought “right to work” was some kid of Orwellian term Americans used to mean “they can fire you any time they want.” I stand cheerfully corrected. Anyway, if the OP feels the guy was fired unfairly… _too fucking bad, this is America! What, you hate capitalism or something, **comrade?!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/30 "2018-07-16T22:51:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Does anyone dispute that if instead of the slur that he used the phrase “the n word” that he wouldn’t have lost his job? I’ll dispute that. I have absolutely no idea if he’d have been fired if he had said “the n-word” instead. I have absolutely no idea if he’d have been fired if he’d never brought up the dumb Colonel Sanders thing in the first place. Him being fired may very well have been a foregone conclusion going into the meeting, regardless of what the guy said. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/31 "2018-07-16T22:53:59Z")
From the Times article about this, it seems his face is part of their logo, and so anything he does wrong is going to be magnified. But I bet the real reason is that their sales are bad. He whined that it was all the fault of the NFL protesters, but Pizza Hut bid on and won the NFL pizza franchise, so they obviously thought it was a good deal. So the controversy might have been an excuse for kicking his ass to the curb because of the business. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/32 "2018-07-16T22:59:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t get why you’re so keen about this point. > > As far as I can tell, you repeatedly figure that all of us will agree that he wouldn’t have lost his job if he’d just said “the n word” instead. It seems obvious to you, to the point where you think that must be the unanimous opinion hereabouts. > > And this guy was _too stupid to do that_. You keep saying we can all agree that he just had to make that one easy change — and, well, he’s _too stupid to do that_. He had an easy task in front of him, and he’s just _too stupid to do that_. > > Of course I’d want to fire that guy! What the heck would he stupidly bungle next? And, I think the meeting was in the context of containing PR problems in the context of his perceived racial insensitivity, right? I’m happy to be corrected on that, but if that’s true, it makes his boneheaded use of that word even dumber. At least he didn’t use the really stupid excuse that rappers use it all the time, right? ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/33 "2018-07-16T23:28:20Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Then, thank you for your un-cited anecdote. You don’t mention what the fallout was, so I didn’t see how it would apply. Sorry you didn’t understand the thread topic being something to the effect of [racial sensitivity run amok.](http://www.westword.com/news/famous-daves-accused-of-racial-insensitivity-by-new-nation-church-in-aurora-10538659) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/34 "2018-07-16T23:32:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If this new standard applies, should I be barred from being a CEO, a civic officer or otherwise because of my use of the word above? Perhaps you should describe under what circumstances, and how many times, you’ve used this racist term before the group can properly address your question. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/35 "2018-07-16T23:41:48Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Sorry you didn’t understand the thread topic being something to the effect of [racial sensitivity run amok.](http://www.westword.com/news/famous-daves-accused-of-racial-insensitivity-by-new-nation-church-in-aurora-10538659) When circumstances like that happen, I don’t understand why a huge corporate chain just doesn’t say “Oh shit, sorry about that. Labels ran out and it had nothing to do with race. Here, let us cater an entire party for you or something” But it seems like they hem and haw, and ignore emails and all kinds of crap. I don’t understand that corporate logic. It doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/36 "2018-07-16T23:46:35Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Sorry you didn’t understand the thread topic being something to the effect of [racial sensitivity run amok.](http://www.westword.com/news/famous-daves-accused-of-racial-insensitivity-by-new-nation-church-in-aurora-10538659) Oh, I thought this thread was about whether a chairman who lost his CEO job due to racial insensitivity was being stupid or racist when bringing forth a dumb argument while using a controversial word while on the phone with a PR firm hired to deal with controversy due to his racial insensitivity. Instead, it’s about stupid people misreading some note, like that idiot who objected to the term niggardly. Thanks for clearing that up. I feel like further conversation here will not be time well spent, so off I flounce. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/37 "2018-07-17T00:04:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When circumstances like that happen, I don’t understand why a huge corporate chain just doesn’t say “Oh shit, sorry about that. Labels ran out and it had nothing to do with race. Here, let us cater an entire party for you or something” Actually that is pretty much what happened. The Westworld article is sparse. The Manager apologized profusely, but the church was more interested in holding a demonstration. You had to see the local news coverage for the full story. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/38 "2018-07-17T00:10:27Z")
Well there seem to be two stories: Jones reached out to Famous Dave’s staff via email on June 21, June 25 and July 10. By July 14, he says he had still not heard back from Famous Dave’s lawyers. “I’ve never experienced anything like this in my entire career of practicing law," he says. "We have never had our concerns acknowledged.” “We have offered to meet and talk about it. The church is not being receptive. I’m afraid it’s turning into something that it shouldn’t,” says Jeff Meyer, director of operations for Famous Dave’s Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/39 "2018-07-17T00:15:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well there seem to be two stories: Correct. Because one side views it quite differently than the other. If you saw the 9news coverage on last evening’s broadcast, you’d understand. Once it hits the cyberwaves all bets are off… ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/40 "2018-07-17T00:18:02Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Correct. Because one side views it quite differently than the other. If you saw the 9news coverage on last evening’s broadcast, you’d understand. Once it hits the cyberwaves all bets are off… Was there more on the coverage than “One side says this, and the other side says that”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039.md?page=3)