# Is my understanding of what Papa John's CEO said accurate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039 "2018-07-16T20:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/41 "2018-07-17T00:20:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Does anyone dispute that if instead of the slur that he used the phrase “the n word” that he wouldn’t have lost his job? > > I think it is terribly childish to restrict speech in that manner. Note how nobody in this thread after the OP used the word. We use all kinds of terrible words on this board all of the time, but not that one? > > You may say that is the worst of all because of the offensive nature of it, but that is my point. Nobody in this thread has referred to that word in an offensive nature and arguably the CEO did not either. Are we in a modern age of infantile discussion where certain words are simply banned? Of course not, if John Schnatter were an eloquent philosopher making a well-intended and well-received point about racism in America, and he happened to use the n word, do you honestly thing he would have lost his job? By your own admission he was saying something boneheaded and tone deaf, at a time when he couldn’t afford to say anything boneheaded. And to put a cherry on top, he chose to use a word that ensured everyone in the room and on the call perked up and paid attention to the boneheaded thing he was saying. So yeah, in one sense using that word might have been the breaking point, in that if he hadn’t used it _maybe_ his boneheaded remark would have slipped under the radar. But spinning this as PC run amok is just too far. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/42 "2018-07-17T00:40:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But I still don’t agree that it is a cover up for racism. If I am a Senator from Massachusetts and get a DUI, am asked to resign, and then say, “But Ted Kennedy was probably DUI AND he killed someone but nobody made him resign!” am I condoning DUI? Sorta. You are saying that a DUI should not be a valid reason to ask someone to resign. You are using the existence of a past wrong to justify your own wrong. Now imagine you had previously been accused of DUIs but not proven. Would not such a comment make people think that you think DUIs are perfectly okay? Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how to finish the analogy by changing your words to mention the use of a slur. I tried to slip in some slur against cops, but I couldn’t figure out how. But, even without that part, it still seems pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/43 "2018-07-17T01:12:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Was there more on the coverage than “One side says this, and the other side says that”? Interviews with the manager and church reps were the most juxtaposed nonsense I’ve seen all month. You had a young woman almost in tears fearing she might lose her job on one hand, and basically an angry mob on the other. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/44 "2018-07-17T01:31:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how to finish the analogy by changing your words to mention the use of a slur. I tried to slip in some slur against cops, but I couldn’t figure out how… After receiving my last grossly unfairly administered speeding ticket, I politely and with a big smile on my face said “Fuck you very much, Officer! Have a great day!” Admittedly it’d have been a sexually abusive and insulting way to say goodbye were they female, and I’d probably been hauled away from there, but he just walked back to his bike shaking his head. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/45 "2018-07-17T01:32:53Z")
Actually, I think the OP does not understand the core issue. The CEO made his comments during a role playing exercise designed to prevent public relations gaffes. The fact that during that exercise he dropped the N bomb demonstrated an astounding level of insensitivity and incompetence. > **[Papa John's founder resigns as chairman after using N-word on conference call](https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news/companies/papa-johns-pizza-john-schnatter/index.html?iid=EL)** > > John Schnatter, the founder of Papa John's pizza, has resigned as the company's chairman after it emerged he used the N-word on a conference call in May. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/46 "2018-07-17T01:34:29Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Actually, I think the OP does not understand the core issue. The CEO made his comments during a role playing exercise designed to prevent public relations gaffes. The fact that during that exercise he dropped the N bomb demonstrated an astounding level of insensitivity and incompetence. > > [https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news/companies/papa-johns-pizza-john-schnatter/index.html?iid=EL](https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news/companies/papa-johns-pizza-john-schnatter/index.html?iid=EL) Or a brilliant example of what NOT to do/say? For instructional purposes only, of course! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/47 "2018-07-17T01:46:50Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > After receiving my last grossly unfairly administered speeding ticket, I politely and with a big smile on my face said “Fuck you very much, Officer! Have a great day!” Admittedly it’d have been a sexually abusive and insulting way to say goodbye were they female, and I’d probably been hauled away from there, but he just walked back to his bike shaking his head. Were you speeding? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/48 "2018-07-17T01:52:50Z")
So if he had said, “Colonel Sanders used the N-word and didn’t get criticized for it,” he’d be in the clear? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/49 "2018-07-17T02:04:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So if he had said, “Colonel Sanders used the N-word and didn’t get criticized for it,” he’d be in the clear? How the hell would we know? This question has already been asked, and has had several answers, but ultimately, who knows? Did you read the thread? I was right above. Reflouncing now. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/50 "2018-07-17T04:57:37Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have read several news accounts (and they can be found everywhere) but my understanding of the use of the racial slur was as follows: > > The CEO was in a meeting addressing the heat that Papa Johns had been taking for speaking out in favor of NFL players standing for the national anthem and not remaining in the locker room or taking a knee. Some had said that stance was racist against blacks. In the meeting he denied that he was racist and was apparently exasperated by the criticism and said something to the effect that “Colonel Sanders called black people niggers and he didn’t get in trouble for it.” > > Afterwards, because he used “the n word” he was pressured to resign. > > Is my understanding accurate? If so, then WTF? Isn’t it plain that he wasn’t using the word, that he was simply describing another person’s use of the word? > > If this new standard applies, should I be barred from being a CEO, a civic officer or otherwise because of my use of the word above? 1. Nobody spoke in favor of standing; they spoke against kneeling. 2. Yes. Oh wait - I misunderstood. Using it in your post above? I don’t think so. Using it in a similar manner at work? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/51 "2018-07-17T07:11:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have read several news accounts (and they can be found everywhere) but my understanding of the use of the racial slur was as follows: > > The CEO was in a meeting addressing the heat that Papa Johns had been taking for speaking out in favor of NFL players standing for the national anthem and not remaining in the locker room or taking a knee. Some had said that stance was racist against blacks. In the meeting he denied that he was racist and was apparently exasperated by the criticism and said something to the effect that “Colonel Sanders called black people niggers and he didn’t get in trouble for it.” > > Afterwards, because he used “the n word” he was pressured to resign. > > Is my understanding accurate? If so, then WTF? Isn’t it plain that he wasn’t using the word, that he was simply describing another person’s use of the word? > > If this new standard applies, should I be barred from being a CEO, a civic officer or otherwise because of my use of the word above? So, circling back to the beginning…this meeting was called to discuss the CEO’s choice to publicly associate his company with one side of a polarizing, racially charged controversy which had nothing at all to do with said company. I suppose it’s possible he might have saved his job had he chosen his words better, but to say that his use of that word was _the_ reason he was pressured to resign seems to miss the point in a really big way. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/52 "2018-07-17T07:50:02Z")
It seems as though this John fella was looking for the “academic use” exception where he could toss the word out not as his own word but to demonstrate someone else’s use of it. But for some reason he felt comfortable doing this in front of the senior executives of his company and they did not agree that an academic use exception applied here. Barack Obama had an academic use exception when discussing race issues in America in a televised interview. People were a little shocked to hear the POTUS dropping that word but if you listen to what he was saying in context it is obvious that he is referring to the history of the word (where it was used commonly and openly in the past but not so much nowadays) rather than referring to any specific group of people. It should also be noted that Barack Obama is black, which gives him built-in n-word privileges. TV personality Bill Maher said the word in reference to himself and got a passive academic use exception by virtue of the news cycle changing fast enough that the outrage fell by the wayside. It should be noted that he hasn’t done it since. I remember hearing a radio show on satellite radio based somewhere out of the south. It was a hip hop show hosted by two black men. They used the n-word like candy, sprinkling every sentence with multiple uses, applying the label to any person, thing or concept that they were talking about. And they would take calls from the public and the public would talk like they did. But you could tell from the voices that it was white men calling in and that they were getting subtle joy out of being able to say that word on the radio to two black men who couldn’t beat them up for saying it. I’m also reminded of Chris Rock’s hilarious bit “(N-words) versus Black People” in which he lays out very clearly that your average black person is hard-working, dedicated and just trying to make ends meet. He contrasts this with certain individuals who lie, cheat and steal while celebrating what terrible individuals they are. Chris Rock has felt the need to retire this bit because of too many white people throwing the n-word in his face because they think they will get an academic use exception when talking to him about it. In general though, the academic use exception applies in supremely narrow circumstances. Anyone who wishes to use that word is free to do so so but is not guaranteed to be free from consequence for doing so. Use at your own risk. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/53 "2018-07-17T09:21:59Z")
Why are you annoyed that I said yo’ momma is stupid? Someone else called her fat and ugly and got away with it. …is not a good line to take. Either Papa is oblivious enough to not know there are certain words that should avoid as much as possible leaving your mouth – even quoting others – in which case he was a ticking timebomb for the corporation. Or he’s just racist. I mean, “Other people would call you guys X” is a trick racists / sexists etc often use to insult somebody or a group while being able to claim that they did not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/54 "2018-07-17T12:42:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Then, thank you for **your un-cited anecdote**. But also > [@](#): > > I think it’s likely ( **based on no proof** ) that this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Emphasis added in both cases. Your standards of evidence seem rather flexible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/55 "2018-07-17T13:27:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Ah, I see. Your interpretation of his comments are: > > CEO: Damn, I do hate black people but they can’t call me out on it because I haven’t exactly said that. Hell, Colonel Sanders came right out and said it, and he didn’t get in trouble, so why should I get in trouble for hating blacks secretly while he did it openly! > > Whereas my interpretation is: > > CEO: These accusations of racism are absurd. I have no issue with black people at all. But even if I did, why are people picking through my brain or my words? Even if they did find something racist, which they won’t, Colonel Sanders was openly racist and didn’t get in trouble. My conduct is orders of magnitude less than his and I should not be subject to such an inquisition. > > Is that fair? I think we could all agree that if he said exactly “the n word” instead of using the word, he would have kept his job. So is it merely the use of the word that is now bad regardless of intent? Should I resign my civic posts because of the OP? It would be silly to fire someone for saying nigger in a non-perjorative manner with nothing more. But when someone like Papa John consistently displays such racist behavior and sentiment and then seems comfortable saying nigger in public, you just can’t keep that guy around. I think a lot of people reasonably believe that he is in fact racist, you may not but a lot of other people do ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/56 "2018-07-17T13:27:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But also Emphasis added in both cases. > > Your standards of evidence seem rather flexible. Unless, of course, the first example was used as an actual argument and the second was a heavily-caveated guess, in which case the comparison doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/57 "2018-07-17T13:37:05Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I’m not sure if it is actually true that Colonel Sanders ever said that, but even if so, he has been dead for decades. Progress has been made in the interim. The Washington Post published a[letter from Sanders’ great-granddaughter](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dont-use-the-colonel-as-an-excuse-for-racism/2018/07/15/ea660480-86c3-11e8-9e06-4db52ac42e05_story.html?utm_term=.4ceca18d5e1e), who knew him into her 20s, and she claims he would never have used that word. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/58 "2018-07-17T14:39:58Z")
The beauty of the free market is a company can hire and fire people based on what they say and the rest of us can buy or not their products. Yay, free markets! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/59 "2018-07-17T14:43:18Z")
I must take **UltraVires** ’ side here. Using a derogatory term to derogate and quoting a derogatory term in a discussion about derogation are not the same thing. That liberal Dopers can’t grasp this makes me glad I’ve changed my political alignment from ‘Centrist leaning toward Democratic Party’ to ‘Centrist leaning toward sanity.’ 🙂 Bob Dylan once had a hit song opposing racism with the stanza > [@](#): > > And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger > No one doubted that he pulled the trigger > And though they could not produce the gun > The DA said he was the one who did the deed > And the all-white jury agreed. Are radio stations no longer allowed to play this song on the airwaves? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039/60 "2018-07-17T14:52:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I must take **UltraVires** ’ side here. Using a derogatory term to derogate and quoting a derogatory term in a discussion about derogation are not the same thing. Nobody here is saying they are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-my-understanding-of-what-papa-johns-ceo-said-accurate/818039.md?page=4)