# Is Navy "Trash Call" legal? (video provided) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 12, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792 "2005-02-12T21:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/1 "2005-02-12T21:59:23Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277623) Sean Factotum argues, > [@](#): > > Then you were/are violating Federal law, and filled out grunchloads of paperwork after the fact. > Look, I’m not going to say every afloat command follows the laws exactly every time. But there are programs in place for disposal of trash, and they don’t include throwing it overboard. We had an incinerator onboard a cruiser I served on in the '80s, and there’s always the Red Goat (when it’s working) on the older/smaller ships. I argue that this is not true and that so long as there is no plastic and you are in international waters it is entirely legal, but I’m not sure where to find the regulations. I base my knowledge on hours of training I received while I was in the Navy, and to prove that it happens at all I furnish this [video](http://www.br1an.net/Trash%20Call.WMV) (1mb) and , and a [photo](http://www.br1an.net/2005/02/navy-trash-call.html) of us prestaging our trash. Yes, ships have incinerators and machines to turn plastic into large discs. But the Navy also throws a lot of things overboard as a matter of fact. The question now is, is it legal? ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/2 "2005-02-12T22:15:24Z")
> [@](#): > > When we had trash call, the gunners would set up sometimes on the fantail of the ship and wait for the trash to float back away from us, and then they would fire 5 round bursts, “blup-blup-blup-blup-blup”, then there would be a pause, and then boom-boom-boom-boom-boom, the trash would be destroyed. It was a blast to watch them work. The Marines from Recon got a lot of trigger-time, as well. They were outfitted with assault vests, crash helmets and carried 9mm pistols and silenced MP-5s. They practiced double-tapping over and over on targets set up on the fantail. [link](http://www.cindys-treasures.com/BoxesByDamon/marinecorpsexperiences/marcorpsexp_267.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/3 "2005-02-12T22:24:24Z")
Yes - it’s legal to throw some trash overboard. I’ll look for the US regs later, but the international convention that deals with it is MARPOL V. For a quick reference, here’s a copy of the “Garbage Placard” required to be carried by US vessels: [http://www.uscg.mil/d17/m/fva/garbageplacard.jpg](http://www.uscg.mil/d17/m/fva/garbageplacard.jpg) Another one: [http://www.fishermansoutfitter.com/scstore/graphics/uscgs6b.jpg](http://www.fishermansoutfitter.com/scstore/graphics/uscgs6b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/4 "2005-02-12T22:30:28Z")
According to Chapmans, and the USCG, the relevant international regulation is Annex V of the Marine Pollution Act, a history of which can be found [here](http://www.oceansatlas.com/unatlas/issues/pollutiondegradation/marpol_convention/marpol_seemore.htm#Annex%20V:%20Prevention%20of%20pollution%20by%20garbage%20from%20ships). A more succinct version can hbe found [here](http://www2.dnv.com/portenv/ASP/PollutionInfo.asp?ID=20): > [@](#): > > Generally, ship generated garbage can either be delivered to shore, incinerated onboard, legally or/and illegally discharged to sea. Garbage is e.g. plastic, paper, metal, wood etc. Except for plastics, garbage can legally be dumped at sea provided that the distance from nearest land is above defined limits summarised in the Guidelines to MARPOL, Annex V. With reference to so-called special areas, dumping of other waste categories is restricted. For new, ocean-going ships, especially for ships that create large amounts of garbage (such as cruise ships), ship incinerators are coming more and more into use. The summary; inside of 25 miles, all sorts of restrictions. Outside 25 miles, no oil, no sewage (apparently; I could be misreading that) and [B}no plastic\*\*. The last is the most important, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/5 "2005-02-12T22:36:15Z")
For a look at specific US regulations pertaining to garbage, here is [33 CFR 151.51](http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=bce53fff344449ac9afd5baf8f3c4c31&rgn=div5&view=text&node=33:2.0.1.5.20&idno=33#33:2.0.1.5.20.1.160). What’s interesting, as I’m thinking about this, is that the applicability for these regs (and most others) specifically exclude warships. As a matter of fact, so do most (all?) SOLAS conventions, including MARPOL. So I did a quick check, and found this Navy policy note: [https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Pollution/Policy/note5.html](https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Pollution/Policy/note5.html) > [@](#): > > The MARPOL Convention does not apply to warships or to naval > auxiliaries. The Convention does, however, require party states > to ensure that their warships and naval auxiliaries operate > consistently with the Convention so far as “reasonable and > practicable.” So there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/6 "2005-02-12T23:34:59Z")
That video sure brought back some fond memories! I remember looking over the bow and watching dolphins hitching free rides in the bow wake, and later watching the sharks tearing into the garbage off the fantail during “pump & dump” ops. Besides garbage, there was the equipment that refused to be repaired, which was finally subjected to “float tests.” Plus, sailors take a lot of crap off the ocean, what with the dificulties of operating a buffer on the deck during rough seas, for example, and so there’s certainly a “fuck you” release from throwing trash into it. I once got the figures from our storekeepers and estimated the length of all the soda cans used on our LPH during one Westpac; I forget how many miles of cans it equalled, but every inch of them went over the side. And every green Marine turd as well. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/7 "2005-02-13T03:07:45Z")
I was on a nuclear-powered cruiser as a midshipman in 1987, and during the month I was on board, the ship went to sea once primarily to dispose of trash. The trash included metal desks, chairs, and other junk, as well as garbage bags full of trash. The garbage bags were sunk with the side-mounted .50-cal machine guns. 😃 It is my understanding, however, that Navy surface ships were supposed to be getting away from trash disposal at sea. As for submarines, which I’m much more familiar with, there simply is no room for on-board storage of trash. Trash is compacted into metal canisters, and ejected out the bottom of the sub via the TDU (trash disposal unit). The TDU is rather like a small vertical torpedo tube. TDU canisters had holes punched in them and had to be a certain weight to ensure they did not float. If a given canister was packed full of trash, but still not heavy enough, metal weights (disk-shaped) were dropped in. We also pumped and/or blew out untreated sewage from our on-board sanitary tanks. We also pumped our bilges, but unlike past practices, we never pumped waste oil to sea. Waste oil was retained in a tank for proper disposal back in port. We never shot trash, emptied our sanitary tanks, or pumped bilges within 12 or 25 nautical miles of land. To be safe, our commanding officer’s standing orders required us to be at least 50 nautical miles from land. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-navy-trash-call-legal-video-provided/289792/8 "2005-02-13T04:13:14Z")
/me regains his sanity =) Thanks guys