# Is Neil DeGrasse Tyson a genius? Or, just a very charismatic personality? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2014, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520 "2014-03-12T06:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kstarnes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kstarnes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kstarnes)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/1 "2014-03-12T06:52:15Z")
I’m not qualified to answer that question. All I know is that he’s good at what he does, which is to popularize astronomy and science. I suppose in that sense he’s a genius but is he a genius in the way that we usually understand the meaning of the word? Again, I am not qualified to answer that question but someone here might be. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/2 "2014-03-12T09:10:10Z")
Probably. He’s the recipient of a number of scientific awards and a doctorate in Astrophysics. The usual requirement for “genius” is a 130 IQ, which seems likely given his accomplishments and apparent breadth of knowledge. I suppose without a public IQ test, we won’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/3 "2014-03-12T09:12:23Z")
I guess he’s just a version of this prof - the BBC’s popular science go-to-guy: not a “genius” but a helpful combination of educated, good communicator and handsome: > **[Brian Cox (physicist)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_%28physicist%29)** > > Brian Edward Cox CBE FRS (born 3 March 1968) is an English physicist and former musician who is a professor of particle physics in the School of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Manchester and The Royal Society Professor for Public Engagement in Science. He is best known to the public as the presenter of science programmes, especially BBC Radio 4’s The Infinite Monkey Cage and the Wonders of... series and for popular science books, such as Why Does E=mc²? and The Quantum Cox has be... Been doing stuff like this for several years now: > **[Wonders of the Solar System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_Solar_System)** > > Wonders of the Solar System is a 2010 television series co-produced by the BBC and Science Channel, and hosted by physicist Brian Cox. Wonders of the Solar System was first broadcast in the United Kingdom on BBC Two on 7 March 2010. The series comprises five episodes, each of which focuses on an aspect of the Solar System and features a 'wonder' relevant to the theme. The series was described as one of the most successful to appear on BBC Two in recent years. An accompanying book with the same ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/4 "2014-03-12T09:40:31Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > Is Neil DeGrasse Tyson a genius? Or, just a very charismatic personality? Yes ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/5 "2014-03-12T09:50:22Z")
Argh. Don’t get me started on Brian Cox. I just want to slap his smarmy face every time he appears on my television. If I wanted to watch a rock star/astrophysicist I’d get Brian May instead. Or, even better, get Dara Ó Briain. But I digress. NDT is unquestionably smart - his non-presenting career more than supports this. I don’t think he’s a genius in the sense of, say, Einstein in that his work will lead to a massive paradigm shift but then that’s true very, very few scientists, but he knows his stuff and has added to the sum total of scientific knowledge like most good researchers. His prominence, of course, is because he’s also relatively telegenic and good at explaining complex concepts to a lay audience, which is a rarer skill than you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/6 "2014-03-12T13:51:32Z")
We don’t see much of NdT here in the UK - his background indicates that he is not seen as a genius, or particularly prominent academic scientist, by his peers. His prominence as a populariser and communicator of science speaks for itself. Worth noting that it must be next to impossible to combine a serious media career with heavyweight scientific research, nowadays. You might be able to participate in both areas, but to excel in both seems like a huge stretch . Maybe there are some examples of older guys who did great work in their salad days, and are now more administrators of research, who can do it. But generally, if you’re leading a research area to the extent where you’re considered a genius by your peers then you’re all the way in. No time for anything else. So I’d never expect that a science media person needs to be recognised as a profound thinker in their area in order ot have credibility - that’s not their role or the path they have chosen. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/7 "2014-03-12T14:16:22Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > But generally, if you’re leading a research area to the extent where you’re considered a genius by your peers then you’re all the way in. No time for anything else. So I’d never expect that a science media person needs to be recognised as a profound thinker in their area in order ot have credibility - that’s not their role or the path they have chosen. I’m sure you’re right and neither of the names that follow could be thought of as having genius but, damn, they are/were bright and also media-friendly: > **[Robert Winston, Baron Winston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Winston)** > > Robert Maurice Lipson Winston, Baron Winston (born 15 July 1940) is a British professor, medical doctor, scientist, television presenter and Labour peer. > Robert Winston was born in London to Laurence Winston and Ruth Winston-Fox, and brought up as an Orthodox Jew. His mother was Mayor of the former Borough of Southgate. Winston's father died as a result of medical negligence when Winston was nine years old. Robert has two younger siblings: a sister, the artist Willow Winston, and a brother, An... > **[Steve Jones (biologist)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jones_%28biologist%29)** > > John Stephen Jones DSc FLSW FRS (born 24 March 1944) is a British geneticist and, from 1995 to 1999 as well as from 2008 to June 2010, was Head of the Department of Genetics, Evolution and Environment at University College London. His studies are conducted in the Galton Laboratory. > He is also a television presenter and a prize-winning author on the subject of biology, especially evolution. He is a popular contemporary writer on evolution. In 1996 his work won him the Michael Faraday Prize "fo... ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/8 "2014-03-12T14:30:20Z")
If he’s not a genius, Tyson has still done much more for science than many scientists who \*are \*geniuses. He’s been a fine racial role model too, since it hasn’t been said yet. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/9 "2014-03-12T14:35:56Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Probably. He’s the recipient of a number of scientific awards and a doctorate in Astrophysics. The usual requirement for “genius” is a 130 IQ, which seems likely given his accomplishments and apparent breadth of knowledge. I suppose without a public IQ test, we won’t know for sure. Seriously? Something like 2.5% of the American population has at least a 130 IQ (and that’s apparently the average for people with doctorates in the sciences). surely every one of them isn’t a genius. a 130 IQ isn’t _that_ high. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/10 "2014-03-12T14:37:15Z")
I’d be very surprised if a practicinge astrophysicist wasn’t well above 130. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/11 "2014-03-12T15:30:11Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’d be very surprised if a practicinge astrophysicist wasn’t well above 130. Why? What makes you think an IQ that high is required to earn a Ph.D. in astrophysics? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/12 "2014-03-12T15:43:23Z")
astrophysics is really hard ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/13 "2014-03-12T15:49:35Z")
Neil Tyson is all these things, but … I don’t think he was the best choice to host the new _Cosmos_ series. When Carl Sagan spoke, something about his manner made his every word _awe-inspiring_. It was like a sermon, by the most charismatic preacher in the world – a sermon on subjects where faith was not, and should not be, involved. Every time I go back and watch that first episode where he says: > [@](#): > > The surface of the Earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. On this shore, we’ve learned most of what we know. Recently, we’ve waded a little way out, maybe ankle-deep, and the water seems inviting. … I want to rush right out and build a space probe. But Tyson? He’s more like Mr. Wizard. Educational, entertaining … but not really inspiring for me. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/14 "2014-03-12T16:01:08Z")
I recently listened to a podcast interview with NDT, who said someone else had asked when he realized he had a gift (meaning, presumably, the super-smarts to be an astrophysicist) and he said “gift? It has nothing to do with having a gift, I just worked really hard.” There’s probably some modesty going on there though. No matter how hard you work, you probably need some level of above-average smarts to become an astrophysicist. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/15 "2014-03-12T16:25:51Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > astrophysics is really hard Sure, but so is advanced study in any field. You don’t have to be a genius to be good at math or physics, and you don’t even have to have a second-percentile IQ to make original contributions to either. Doesn’t mean those contributions will change the world like Einstein or Newton, but most original research doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/16 "2014-03-12T16:28:11Z")
> [@solost](#): > > There’s probably some modesty going on there though. No matter how hard you work, you probably need some level of above-average smarts to become an astrophysicist. Above-average, definitely. But let’s keep in mind that half the people in the world are above-average (except in Lake Wobegon.) I don’t think the fact that one is an astrophysicist necessarily means you have a super-duper genius-level IQ, though. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/17 "2014-03-12T16:32:03Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Above-average, definitely. But let’s keep in mind that half the people in the world are above-average (except in Lake Wobegon.) I don’t think the fact that one is an astrophysicist necessarily means you have a super-duper genius-level IQ, though. It’s probably more a case of being a subject that would only _interest_ someone who enjoyed mental gymnastics. (The actual _doing_ of the astrophysics, that is – not the fruits of that labor. _Everyone_ likes black holes.) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/18 "2014-03-12T16:34:35Z")
Yeah, but 130 is above average. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Seriously? > > Something like 2.5% of the American population has at least a 130 IQ (and that’s apparently the average for people with doctorates in the sciences). surely every one of them isn’t a genius. a 130 IQ isn’t _that_ high. I’d heard 150 batted about, so this sent me googling. If the question is ‘what IQ is considered genius level’, the answer seems to be 140. This answer is based on the bell curve and is strictly mathematical. If the question is ‘what is a genius’, the answer is different. I like the wikipedia answer, which says that an IQ of 125 seems to be necessary for genius, but that no particular IQ guarantees it. > [@](#): > > Geniuses are often deemed as such after demonstrating great originality. They tend to have strong intuitions about their domains, and they build on these insights with tremendous energy. > [@](#): > > . . . the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum level of IQ, no higher than about IQ 125, is strictly necessary for genius, but that level of IQ is also sufficient for development of genius only when combined with . . . opportunity for talent development and personality characteristics of drive and persistence. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/19 "2014-03-12T17:51:45Z")
A genius is someone who ha made a truly groundbreaking contribution to some field of intellectual endeavor. It has little to do with IQ except that it is unlikely that one can become a genius without having a somewhat above average intelligence. The vast majority of people with very high IQs will never be geniuses, though. Many of them will never achieve much of any interest at all. The notion of “genius level” IQ is nonsense. I see no sign whatever that Tyson is a genius. He seems to be a competent scientist in a field that does call for high IQ levels, but no more than that. (Heavily mathy fields like astrophysics tend to call for higher IQ levels than other fields, but all that shows is that IQ test measure mathy, puzzle solving aspects of intelligence better than they measure the other types of intelligence needed to excel in other sorts of fields.) Tyson’s special talents, however, are not so much in science itself, as in the communication of science and in being an engaging TV personality. Both of those are very rare talents, not to sneezed at, and are particularly rare in people who have actual scientific chops, as Tyson does, and are committed to using their communicative talents in the service of science. And yeah, 130 IQ is really not all that high. I should have though half the regulars on this board have IQs in that range, or even higher. If any of them were geniuses, though, they wouldn’t be wasting their time around here. Also, please add me to the list of people who absolutely cannot stand Professor Brian Cox. :vomit smiley: Tyson is way better. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520/20 "2014-03-12T17:56:09Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Seriously? > > Something like 2.5% of the American population has at least a 130 IQ (and that’s apparently the average for people with doctorates in the sciences). surely every one of them isn’t a genius. a 130 IQ isn’t _that_ high. I’m fine with calling the brightest couple percent of our society geniuses. It’s not like the word has a precise definition, anyway. But pick whatever IQ number, education level, intellectual achievement, or other criteria you like: NDT will be a genius by some of the definitions, and not by others. Unless we can agree on a criteria, the OP’s question can’t be answered. 130 IQ is one I hear bandied about a lot (it’s basically the criteria for Mensa), so it’s what I used. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-neil-degrasse-tyson-a-genius-or-just-a-very-charismatic-personality/683520.md?page=2)