Is Neil DeGrasse Tyson a genius? Or, just a very charismatic personality?

I don’t disagree - Sagan was very much preacher-like (or I-just-took-5-tabs-of-LSD-like…) in the way he described science and the universe, or possibly poetic. He turned science and exploration of the macro- and micro-universe into something almost mystical.

NDT is more down to Earth most of the time (although he does have some choice, grandiloquent rants in his repertoire). He’s closer to someone like Feynman, who *could *switch into awe-inspiring diatribes, but more commonly was content with mocking or underlying ignorance, stupidity or absurdity wherever he saw it.

Ah, fuck, got bitten by zombie Tyson.

So?

  1. I take it you’re not a fan of his?
  2. Welcome back! Where have you been for the last eight or so years?

Stalking Neil, perhaps? :smiley:

Tyson is an outstanding communicator, which makes him ideal as a science populizer. Getting in PhD. in anything proves someone is no slouch intellectually. Whether you want to call that “genius” or just proof that he was a smart guy who put in the time and effort to get the fancy cap and gown.

My son the PhD. candidate has finished the classroom study part of the program and is now slogging through the research phase. He can talk in great detail about things where I barely understand the concept. Is he a genius? (He’s my son, so of course he is. OTOH he’s my son, so he’s also the grown man who forgets to take something back with him every single time he comes to visit us.)

He’s as toothsome as he is sweetsome.

I don’t know if he’s a genius but I am sure a good many people are a bit smarter for having listened to him talk.

:smiley:

He should replace Alex on Jeopardy! for the voice alone.

For seven years I had a job where I worked with actual scientists, people with doctorate degrees, and in some cases multiple doctorates doing a particular type of research. You’d think these folks, all of them very smart, would understand the value of PR and getting the general public interested in/supportive of science. And some of them did. There was also a contingent that viewed the general public as idiots (in one particular case not meant as an insult but that person’s assessment of the mental capabilities of others - he was not a really pleasant guy to work with not because he was aggressive and nasty but because he was hugely condescending) and viewed someone like NDT as either a sell-out or a failure who couldn’t cut it in the real scientific world and had to settle for what he could get. There are scientists out there who resent, even get enraged at trying to explain their work in layman’s terms and see it as “dumbing down” what they do to the point of completely getting it wrong or lying to people, and insist the only way to understand what they do at all is to become equally educated and competent in the field - which not only is beyond most lay people it excludes most other scientists who are experts in some other narrow field. Of course, these same people will often whine that no one understands them or the importance of what they do, and why can’t they get funds for research? (If you can’t “dumb down” enough for the folks making the financial decisions to understand why what you do matters you ain’t getting funds, but hey, I’m just one of those laypeople idiots, what could I possibly know, right?)

So… there are folks who believe ANY scientist who can communicate with the general public is a sell-out, not really a scientist, wasting his talents, misleading the public… in some cases there’s a hefty dose of jealousy (why is HE famous and I’m not? I’ve got twice as many publications as he does!) in other cases I think their view is that hyper-focused and narrow.

Someone like Stephen J. Gould, whose professional area was snails, seemed to have a healthy perspective that the most groundbreaking work he could do on snails was not going to have a huge impact on the average human being, ever, but understood that he could serve science as a whole by communicating with the average person. He needed to have the background and experience of being a working scientist and for that snails was as good as anything else, and there’s nothing wrong with being a snail expert - he just understand that snails were not going to be as compelling as a lot of other stories he could tell about science. Most of his to-the-public essays were about other things (he did sneak a few snail-tales into the mix, but only a few).

Likewise, NDT needs his background as a working scientist - in his case astrophysics - to do what he does, but he’s not communicating minutiae about his field to the general public, he’s trying to communicate science in general.

One problem with these scientists is that, since they are often discussing areas of science outside their main field, they sometimes get things wrong. This might be something large - Gould actually has several essays about that sort of thing - or some small detail. At which point other scientists will blast them in the science community or sometimes even in front of the lay public. This is an extension of the extremely viscous in-fighting you can get in a narrow field of science in the professional media of journals and such with alleged adults getting very, very nasty with each other about small things, such that the average SDMB flame war looks tame in comparison. Personal insults are de rigueur and you get hyper-intelligent people using that intelligence to try to destroy each other’s personal and professional reputations. It’s quite ugly, really. But the general public isn’t aware of this sort of squabbling schoolyard atmosphere in science, so when it spills out into the public view folks are taken by surprise.

Of course, plenty of other scientists envy the General Public Communicator/Translator Scientist their ability to explain what they do and have some admiration for a talent they themselves don’t possess. They’ll occasionally wince at this or that detail but conceded that yes, sometimes you do have to simplify to communicate with the general public and anyone getting serious about a particular field will have to learn that that bit there isn’t quite accurate, but close enough for a non-scientist. They understand that if the general public isn’t at least a little excited about science scientists will wind up stocking shelves or flipping burgers to pay the rent. Also, they like when folks have some interest in what they do, just like most of the rest of us.

NDT has the advantage of being VERY charismatic. Maybe at times he also checks the “minority role model” box but affirmative action is not how he became the go-to guy for so many TV/you tube spots. Carl Sagan had that quality as well, as noted, and if anything more of it (one has to wonder if the early relationship between Sagan and NDT was a factor in all this, Sagan was his mentor). and he clearly respected and learned from him a great deal, probably more than just science.

There are many other Science Communicators out there who have the double qualification of heavy academics/professional career and ability to talk to lay people with a dash of charisma. Stephen J. Gould has already been mentioned. I’ll throw Oliver Sachs in there as well. Among the living there is also Sanjay Gupta and Atul Gawande (both medical science explainers). I think it’s no coincidence that most of the science communicators are doctors of some sort - doctors expect to have to talk to regular folks and they’re more likely to discover they have a talent for doing so than a scientist in another area that has little contact with the general public. Which not to say every doctor is a scientist in the sense usually meant, but they certainly deal with a highly technical field that incorporates a lot of science. And I’m sure there are plenty of Dopers who can criticize the performance of NDT, Gould, Gupta, Gawande, Sachs, and others, find instances where they were in error or just flat out wrong (Gould did a few essays on ones from prior eras) but I argue that one error does not wipe out the good they do or the value of the rest of their dealings with the public. I’m aware of Brian Cox also falling into that category, but I’m not very familiar with his work. Stephen Hawking was certainly a brilliant science communicator and while I don’t think his work will have the impact of Einstein’s he wasn’t a slouch in the actual science - I mean, you have to have made a significant contribution to get a type of radiation named after yourself. I’m sure other countries have scientists that serve that role to their general public even if they aren’t known internationally (it would not surprise me if a couple of the folks I name make people in other countries say “Who?”)

So… TLDR… all of these folks are very smart and competent/successful in their chosen fields to a decent degree. They didn’t opt for a media presence because they weren’t good at what they got the high-power degree(s) in. They may not be at the very very top of their fields - but then, neither are most other successful people. They’re still successful. Their work in the media/communicating with the general public does take time they could be spending on science… but even scientists do stuff other than just science, like playing in a band when they aren’t doing science, and sometimes they’re fortunate enough to excel in two areas. Good for them.

The majority of scientists never produce any “distinguished” research. Science is incremental that way, a lot of little stuff with the very occasional “breakthrough”.

That in no way makes him unqualified to “popularize” science.

And that’s a problem… why? You say it like it’s a bad thing.

Ah. “Just” a bureaucratic position.

Would you rather have someone educated about what they’re “bureaucratting” or some random MBA in that job? And if you didn’t have that person in a “just a bureaucratic position” where do you think the funding for all that real science would come from? Bureaucrats are the folks who handle the mundane stuff like paying the bills and making sure someone orders toilet paper for the restrooms and dealing with other people for things like funding so the “real scientists” can do their science stuff without having to worry about all that other stuff. It’s an unfortunate fact of life about our civilization that we promote good teachers into positions where they do bureaucracy instead of teaching, and scientist into positions where they do bureaucracy instead of science but putting, respectively, non-teachers and non-scientists into those bureaucratic jobs will bring worse results that what we currently see.

“Doing easily what others find difficult is talent; doing what is impossible for talent is genius.”

-Henri Frederic Amiel

He’s one slick dude.

I’ve known several such people in academia. Some nice, some … watch out. Some amazing geniuses, some dumber than dirt (just getting by with social skills).

So based on my experience: NdT seems mostly nice but has issues like the sexual harassment thing. Mostly smart … ish. So smarter than most people, but not a top astronomer.

I’d hope that the field would find someone better to be the “face” of the area.

I’d just like to add that hanging out with an ultra-smart person is intimidating, even if they are nice. One person I interacted with several times years ago was a Turing Award winner and all that. I was doing really well in coming up with good research and getting it published. But this person was on a whole other level. Despite the niceness it was still knee shaking to talk to them.*

I would not have this reaction talking to NdT.

  • OTOH there were some Turing Award winners that I knew that aren’t impressive from my point of view. And some definitely not nice.

Your qualifications to judge are what again?

His c.v. shows his last paper as 2008, which is fine since he was director of the Rose center starting in 1996. Managers don’t have much time to do research. Penzias didn’t do much when he was VP of Bell Labs, for instance.
Given the anti-science attitude of much of the country, I’d say his work is far more important than that of most astrophysicists.
Why do you hate him enough to revive this thread anyway? And my question about Asimov from 5 years ago still stands.