# Is "niggardly" an acceptable word for a 4th grade teacher to use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968 "2002-09-04T15:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/301 "2013-01-05T00:43:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > …you can refer to cigarettes as faggots with impunity, nah nah… Please excuse the combined minor nitpick and derail here, but nobody in the UK (I’m assuming you are refering to British English usage) has ever referred to a cigarette as a faggot. A faggot is either a bundle of wood, a variety of meatball, or a homosexual gentleman. A cigarette is a fag. Just thought I’d mention that in case you ever visit here and ask for a pack of faggots. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/302 "2013-01-05T00:51:24Z")
Or if you ask for a fag sandwich, because that’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/303 "2013-01-05T01:20:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does “Undress 'cause I can see through your clothes,” mean the same thing to you as “Undrape; I see through the broadcloth and gingham whether or no?” Of course it doesn’t. Words carry all sorts of subtle connotations that transcend their strict dictionary definitions. Which is why it’s fucking stupid for a 4th grade teacher to use the word “niggardly”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/304 "2013-01-05T01:29:28Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Of course it doesn’t. Words carry all sorts of subtle connotations that transcend their strict dictionary definitions. > > Which is why it’s fucking stupid for a 4th grade teacher to use the word “niggardly”. Precisely the point. A person who willfully ignores a word’s connotations or associations because in their head those connotations or associations aren’t legitimate is an incompetent communicator. The competent communicator takes everything into consideration. **YWTF** , definitely your third possibility is on the table. I was tired of typing it over and over, though, so I subsumed it into my second one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/305 "2013-01-05T03:30:40Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Please excuse the combined minor nitpick and derail here, but nobody in the UK (I’m assuming you are refering to British English usage) has ever referred to a cigarette as a faggot. A faggot is either a bundle of wood, a variety of meatball, or a homosexual gentleman. A cigarette is a fag. Just thought I’d mention that in case you ever visit here and ask for a pack of faggots. > > Carry on. Thanks for the correction. Just change “faggot” to “fag” in my last post. Fortunately, my point stays exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/306 "2013-01-05T05:20:12Z")
So, what some of you are saying is that my classmate, Peter, should’ve had to change his name in school so the teacher wouldn’t be using that term? Get real. The proper response to the outcry over “the other n-word” is to educate people. One would think that’s the whole point of school. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/307 "2013-01-05T07:15:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Absolutely incorrect, and your holding this idea makes me believe that your ability to write, or to enjoy, rich prose is sorely lacking. Tough talk for someone who doesn’t appear to understand 1984. You’re talking about poeticism now, not meaning. Come back when you understand the argument. And try to be a tad less insulting or I shan’t bother explaining things to you again. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/308 "2013-01-05T07:16:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, what some of you are saying is that my classmate, Peter, should’ve had to change his name in school so the teacher wouldn’t be using that term? Get real. The proper response to the outcry over “the other n-word” is to educate people. One would think that’s the whole point of school. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/309 "2013-01-05T10:54:13Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Please excuse the combined minor nitpick and derail here, but nobody in the UK (I’m assuming you are refering to British English usage) has ever referred to a cigarette as a faggot. A faggot is either a bundle of wood, a variety of meatball, or a homosexual gentleman. A cigarette is a fag. Just thought I’d mention that in case you ever visit here and ask for a pack of faggots. > > Carry on. Thanks. I’d have done it myself, only it would have been throwing another faggot on the fire. (In my West Country youth, I encountered a lot of the other sort. You never quite forget the taste of faggots. _The Wurzels_ even wrote a song about it.) ETA: (And there isn’t an alternative term for that kind of meatball, so if I go into the butchers’ and ask for a pound and a half of faggots, I don’t give a damn if the Rainbow Alliance are holding a love-in outside the door that very moment.) ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/310 "2013-01-05T12:47:15Z")
> [@El\_Zagna](#): > > Then there are the countries that you should never mention like Nicaragua. And Niger. I don’t care how you pronounce it, the spelling is too close for comfort. Uruguay. > [@denquixote](#): > > I sure hope none of those teachers is a stamp collector. If one of the parents finds out s/he is a philatelist all hell might break loose. And it would do no good to say that FDR was a fan of philately, that would just make it worse. Wasn’t there a lynch mob several years ago outside of a female pediatrician’s house? > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Its Chalkboards, not Blackboards.? As a skinny white guy should I be offended by this? ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/311 "2013-01-05T12:59:28Z")
> [@Freakenstein](#): > > … > > Wasn’t there a lynch mob several years ago outside of a female pediatrician’s house? > > … You may be thinking of this incident: > **[BBC NEWS | Magazine | Whispering game](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm)** > > The paediatrician confused with a paedophile is a cautionary tale against hysteria over sex offenders. But commentators rarely agree on the details. What really happened? Tales of which may have been greatly exaggerated if you read the article. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/312 "2013-01-05T13:01:02Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > I sure hope none of those teachers is a stamp collector. If one of the parents finds out s/he is a philatelist all hell might break loose. Too late, they are already known as licensed pedagogues. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/313 "2013-01-05T13:25:57Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > You may be thinking of this incident: > > [BBC NEWS | Magazine | Whispering game](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm) > > Tales of which may have been greatly exaggerated if you read the article. Well, after all they are t h e r a p i s t s. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/314 "2013-01-05T14:00:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, what some of you are saying is that my classmate, Peter, should’ve had to change his name in school so the teacher wouldn’t be using that term? It’s nice that you phrased this moronic strawman as a question, so we can just say, “no.” > [@](#): > > Get real. What excellent advice you have to offer. Have you considered taking it yourself? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/315 "2013-01-05T15:01:02Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > ETA: (And there isn’t an alternative term for that kind of meatball, so if I go into the butchers’ and ask for a pound and a half of faggots, I don’t give a damn if the Rainbow Alliance are holding a love-in outside the door that very moment.) This goes to the point that has been in the thread from the very beginning. “Niggardly” can readily be substituted by half a dozen or more synonyms that are a lot more common and at lot less jarring to the ear. So its safe to assume anyone reaching for its use in casual conversation is just trying to be an ass. “Faggot” in some contexts is the only word that can be used, because there are no other words that can readily be substituted without sacrificing concision and accuracy. Being butthurt at the thought that one can be judged negatively by their word choice is goddamn stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/316 "2013-01-05T15:09:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This goes to the point that has been in the thread from the very beginning. “Niggardly” can readily be substituted by half a dozen or more synonyms that are a lot more common and at lot less jarring to the ear. So its safe to assume anyone reaching for its use in casual conversation is just trying to be an ass. It’s only jarring to the ear when the ear is attached to a head that’s empty of any knowledge of etomology. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/317 "2013-01-05T15:18:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s only jarring to the ear when the ear is attached to a head that’s empty of any knowledge of etomology. The word is _etymology_. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/318 "2013-01-05T15:29:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s nice that you phrased this moronic strawman as a question, so we can just say, “no.” It’s not moronic. It’s the same issue: conflating one meaning for another. In this instance, at least the two different meanings share the same word. > [@](#): > > What excellent advice you have to offer. Have you considered taking it yourself? I am real. I’m not an ignorant sod who doesn’t understand that the word _niggardly_ is not another word. Do you happen to not understand that? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/319 "2013-01-05T15:53:50Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It’s not moronic. It’s the same issue: conflating one meaning for another. In this instance, at least the two different meanings share the same word. No, it’s not the same issue. The issue, of course, is that communication is a two-way street, and that the competent communicator realizes that. In this case, I don’t think you’re participating reasonably in that two-way process. You’re interpreting things in such a foolish manner that I cannot possibly believe you’re making a good-faith effort to understand the reservations I and others have about using the word “niggardly.” Until you make such a good-faith effort, no attempt on my part to communicate those reservations will be productive. A good-faith effort won’t consist of more idiotic straw men, nor will it consist of defending those idiotic straw men. > [@](#): > > I am real. I’m not an ignorant sod who doesn’t understand that the word _niggardly_ is not another word. Do you happen to not understand that? Oh, I know exactly what you are. You’re someone who has a superstitious faith in some sort of hierarchy of connotative legitimacy. > [@Bricker](#): > > It’s only jarring to the ear when the ear is attached to a head that’s empty of any knowledge of etomology. What a bizarre thing to say. I clearly know the etymology of the word, yet I’ve stated several times that I find the word jarring. How can you possibly make such an obviously wrong claim this late in the thread? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/320 "2013-01-05T15:57:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It’s not moronic. It’s the same issue: conflating one meaning for another. In this instance, at least the two different meanings share the same word. It’s moronic because your argument relies on the canard that “niggardly” is a touchy word only because people think it means nigger. The issue has more nuance than that. I learned the word way back in elementary school, but you know what? If a person speaking to me used it casually, I would walk away with a negative impression about their intentions. So I would label them a tool. You chose “Peter” to make your point, when Peter is a very common name (extremely more common, in fact, than the peter=dick usage) and thus is not analogous to niggardly at all. So let me ask you this: Ever met anyone named Judas? What about Cain? What about Adolf? What would you think of parents who decided to give their kids these names? Would you think they were making some kind of “extra” statement? Using their kid’s name as a way to be provocative and subversive, perhaps? I suspect most people would. “Niggardly” is just like that. Which makes it a poor word to use if your goal is to effectively communicate a straightforward message. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968.md?page=17)