# Is "niggardly" an acceptable word for a 4th grade teacher to use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968 "2002-09-04T15:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/381 "2013-01-07T15:01:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Steve: Hey how come you only gave that restaurant 3 stars on Yelp? I thought you loved it. > > Me: Well, I’m pretty niggardly with my praise. > > Steve: Wait, what? Did you…Did you just say you’re a nigger with your praise? > > Me: No, Niggardly. It means cheap or stingy and is completely unrelated etymologically to slurs against black people. > > Steve: Dipshit, why are you using such an easily mistaken word when there’s a plethora of words like avaricious, cheap, close-fisted, economical, frugal, grudging, mean, miserly, parsimonious, pinchpenny, scrimping, skimping, sparing, thrifty, tightfisted, uncharitable, and ungenerous that all mean the same thing and don’t run you the risk of getting the shit kicked out of you in the wrong neighborhood. > > Me: You’re right, Steve, it’s stupid to think there’s some moral imperative to ‘save’ a word, especially when it’s not all that unique in the first place. First they came for “niggardly”, but I didn’t care. Then they came for “unique”, and that was something up with which I would not put! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/382 "2013-01-07T16:38:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If I were to get in a heated debate with a poster here, and they, knowing full what I’m black… As long as we are invoking Gaudere’s Law… > [@](#): > > Or maybe the word is only safe if the context has a white person referring to another as such, eh? But if that’s the case, that suggests that maybe, just maybe, the word is too loaded to truly be serviceable and maybe, just maybe, “miserly” or “tightfisted” would be much better alternatives. How about if a black person says to another black person “Niggard, please”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/383 "2013-01-07T16:55:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I can count on one hand the number of people I’ve encountered who have used to this word in my presence, who did so with a pure heart. The number is zero. > > I read a lot, so I come across it with enough frequency in literature that I don’t bat an eye. But in speech? From regular people having mundane conversations? Never. > > The only time I see people using “niggardly” is in meta discussion whine tests like this thread and when someone is purposefully being a [trolling asshole coward](http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=40sEQy1PyU8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D40sEQy1PyU8). > > So tell me, given these experiences, why should I automatically assume benign intentions if I were to overhear a stranger, for instance, say our president acted niggardly with his concessions to the GOP? If I were to get in a heated debate with a poster here, and they, knowing full what I’m black, said I was niggardly when giving credit to their arguments (and I could totally see **Shodan** or **Bricker** pulling such a move), should I not think anything of it just because their usage was technically accurate? > > Or maybe the word is only safe if the context has a white person referring to another as such, eh? But if that’s the case, that suggests that maybe, just maybe, the word is too loaded to truly be serviceable and maybe, just maybe, “miserly” or “tightfisted” would be much better alternatives. I have posted here for thirteen years. I have thousand posts. And yet, in all that time, the occasion to use the word has never come up apart from the meta discussion. It’s a very specific word with very specific meaning, and it’s difficult to imagine it coming up in a message board conversation because it almost requires a personal perception – to be niggardly requires a certain small meanness of spirit, a very slight edge combined with the parsimonious behavior being complained of. I can’t imagine apply it here, where we can’t know enough about each other to know if it applies. I suppose if I were given to treating this place like a personal blog, I might eventually use it about some person I know in real life, but that’s not typically what I do. But rarity is not obsolescence. In real life, rare though the occasions might be, the word has utility. Your racial hypersensitivity notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/384 "2013-01-07T17:26:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I would absolutely not use the word under the circumstances you laid out. > … > But my general conversation is bounded by no such rules. In my general conversation, I am content to possibly offend an idiot in the service of being able to use the full and rich precise language choices offered to me by English. I’m still having trouble understanding the relevance of the distinction you draw. It seems to me that in a trial, you’re thinking very much about your audience and how they’re respond to your words. In regular conversation, are you suggesting that you don’t think about your audience and how they respond to your words? Or that you just don’t care? And your use of the word “idiot” seems to me to be re-fighting a battle that I thought you’d conceded. Remember a page or so ago when you [wrote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15854718&postcount=267): > [@](#): > > If someone were to respond to the use of the adjective with, “I’m so sorry, but could I ask you to to use a different word? Although I know the word is unrelated to its homophonic cousin, I have an uncontrollable visceral reaction to it,” then I think the reaction would be much more muted. I think everyone concedes that some people are offended by the word because they misunderstand its etymology or meaning. Probably everyone would concede that someone who continues to assign malice to a speaker even when it’s clear the speaker intended no malice is an idiot. But there are people who dislike the word for reasons already discussed. So “possibly offend[ing] an idiot” isn’t the only downside of using the word; there’s also the downside of possibly making a good person uncomfortable, and the downside of possibly distracting a good, intelligent person from the meat of your message. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/385 "2013-01-07T17:58:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m still having trouble understanding the relevance of the distinction you draw. It seems to me that in a trial, you’re thinking very much about your audience and how they’re respond to your words. In regular conversation, are you suggesting that you don’t think about your audience and how they respond to your words? Or that you just don’t care? I care, but in the conversation, I also care about larger goals of not dumbing down language. In the trial, I only care about that which assists my client. > [@](#): > > And your use of the word “idiot” seems to me to be re-fighting a battle that I thought you’d conceded. Remember a page or so ago when you [wrote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15854718&postcount=267): My use of the word “idiot” refers to the hypothetical listener who disdains polysyllabic words. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/386 "2013-01-07T18:05:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I care, but in the conversation, I also care about larger goals of not dumbing down language. In the trial, I only care about that which assists my client. Ah, I see. So in conversation you’ve got two goals that might work at cross-purposes, is that it? If so, that makes sense to me. For me, I think the principle of keeping a single rare word alive will almost never outweigh the immediate practicality of communicating my message clearly and without distraction. As I said lo these many years ago, though, if you’re willing to put up with the potential distraction in order to maintain a single word’s currency, that’s at least a choice made in clear realization of the consequences. > [@](#): > > My use of the word “idiot” refers to the hypothetical listener who disdains polysyllabic words. I, again, see. I thought you were using it to refer to people who objected to the word “niggardly.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968.md?page=19)