# Is "niggardly" an acceptable word for a 4th grade teacher to use? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968 "2002-09-04T15:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/141 "2002-09-07T15:30:05Z")
Today class we’re going to learn a new word and use it in a sentence. "The school board is too niggardly to buy us copies of NAPPY HAIR for our reading groups. I think the teacher used poor judgement considering the age of the students. I think the parent and the school board used poor judgement in reprimanding her. I think it’s ridiculous that this ever should have made the national media, and that people need to start focusing on their responsibilities as much as on their rights, and that for every drop of rain a flower grows and an angel gets his or her pilot’s license. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/142 "2002-09-07T15:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sagasumono \* > 3. Shoud it be taught to kids? Sure,but only for a lit. class (i.e explaining the meaning of the word for Jane Eyre.) That’s exactly the setting in which the teacher was using it. And yeet, the ignorant, nay, moronic parent of one child embarked on a vendetta against the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/143 "2002-09-07T16:26:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > > That’s exactly the setting in which the teacher was using it. And yeet, the ignorant, nay, moronic parent of one child embarked on a vendetta against the teacher. \*\* Wait 'til the class covers _Huckleberry Finn_. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/144 "2002-09-07T17:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by gobear > > First, Jay-Z, DMX, and their cohorts aren’t saying “nigger”; they’re saying “nigga,” which is more of an endearment or neutral term among young urban black men. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by tlw > > > > It’s still the same word, and still as offensive to those of us who don’t feel that there is any excuse for its use. It’s not the same word. I personally don’t use “nigga”, but I understand that the meaning of a word changes depending on who uses it. I am offended when I hear a black person use it, but this offense differs from the type I experience when a white person uses it. For the former, it’s like, “Can’t you please use another term? That’s just so crude and ugly.” For the latter, it’s like, “You think you’re superior to me! Prepare to die!” They are not the same thing. Without an appropriate context, “niggardly” would connote nigger-like to anyone with a half a brain. So I understand if someone immediately cringes when they hear this word. Stupidity isn’t behind this feeling. I think it’s unfair to paint someone as moronic or hypersensitive just because they have this reaction. For this reason, I would not encourage a teacher of nine-year-olds to use “niggardly” in the classroom, unless his or her explicit objective was to explain how this word differs from “nigger”. Throwing it about and expecting others to automatically know it’s innocuous meaning is risky business (and I know the teacher in this case did not do this). ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/145 "2002-09-07T17:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > [I am offended when I hear a black person use it, but this offense differs from the type I experience when a white person uses it. For the former, it’s like, “Can’t you please use another term? That’s just so crude and ugly.” For the latter, it’s like, “You think you’re superior to me! Prepare to die!” Funny, I’ve heard at least one white person call her black friends “nigga” all the time and they _didn’t_ get upset at all. She had grown up in a mostly-black neighborhood, and IIRC her stepfather was black. Her black friends in turn called her (don’t blame me, I’m only reporting what she said) “White Chocolate”. So in your view, monstro, does she also deserve to die? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/146 "2002-09-07T17:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\* It’s not the same word. I personally don’t use “nigga”, but I understand that the meaning of a word changes depending on who uses it. I am offended when I hear a black person use it, but this offense differs from the type I experience when a white person uses it. For the former, it’s like, “Can’t you please use another term? That’s just so crude and ugly.” For the latter, it’s like, “You think you’re superior to me! Prepare to die!” They are not the same thing. Without an appropriate context, “niggardly” would connote nigger-like to anyone with a half a brain. So I understand if someone immediately cringes when they hear this word. Stupidity isn’t behind this feeling. I think it’s unfair to paint someone as moronic or hypersensitive just because they have this reaction. For this reason, I would not encourage a teacher of nine-year-olds to use “niggardly” in the classroom, unless his or her explicit objective was to explain how this word differs from “nigger”. Throwing it about and expecting others to automatically know it’s innocuous meaning is risky business (and I know the teacher in this case did not do this). \*\* [/QUOTE] So much for racial unity, eh? White people get one reaction, a violent one at that, while black people get another. And ONLY people with half a brain (or less) could take offense at ‘niggardly’. Other peoples stupidity will not define my vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/147 "2002-09-07T18:13:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Funny, I’ve heard at least one white person call her black friends “nigga” all the time and they _didn’t_ get upset at all. Surely you know that not all black people are alike and may experience different emotions when in similar situations. And please note that I don’t think white people who use either “nigga” or “nigger” deserve to die. But you better believe that if someone calls me a _nigger_, they had better put up their dukes, either literally or figuratively. If I’ve grown up with a white person and view that person as someone who is not racist or ill-willed and they use “nigga”, I would not have the same reaction as if he or she were a white person I did not know. Goodness, it’s really not as complicated as people make it out to be. > [@](#): > > So much for racial unity, eh? White people get one reaction, a violent one at that, while black people get another. Yes, because the assumption is that a black person can’t hate me because I’m black, while a white person can. In most cases, I’m willing to bet this is a safe assumption to make. > [@](#): > > And ONLY people with half a brain (or less) could take offense at ‘niggardly’. Can you honestly say that if you didn’t know the etymology of the word “niggardly”, you wouldn’t–at least a little bit–think it meant “nigger-like”? Also, there’s a big difference between recognizing the similarity between niggardly and nigger and feeling offense. I think one can recognize the similarities of the words without being stupid or moronic. Can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/148 "2002-09-07T19:56:52Z")
Oh, spare us, Brutus. Next you’ll be complaining “why is it okay to have BET? Where’s my WET?” ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/149 "2002-09-07T20:33:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*Can you honestly say that if you didn’t know the etymology of the word “niggardly”, you wouldn’t–at least a little bit–think it meant “nigger-like”? Also, there’s a big difference between recognizing the similarity between niggardly and nigger and feeling offense. I think one can recognize the similarities of the words without being stupid or moronic. Can’t you? \*\* Nig-_gard_-ly Nig - _ger_ Looks different. Sounds different. I suppose we should stop using any words that confuse stupid people? And if someone doesn’t know the difference between ‘nigger’ and ‘niggardly’, it will take mere moments to explain the difference to them. If they are still confused or offended, screw 'em. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/150 "2002-09-07T21:12:55Z")
[quote] Nig-gard-ly Nig - ger Looks different. Sounds different. \*\* Let’s see. Many posters have agreed that if they didn’t know the meaning of “niggardly”, they would think it was a bad word. So are you calling all of these good people, including myself, stupid? > [@](#): > > And if someone doesn’t know the difference between ‘nigger’ and ‘niggardly’, it will take mere moments to explain the difference to them. If you have to explain the meaning of a word to avoid offense, maybe–just maybe–it’s not the best word to use. Especially if that word shares meaning with many, less controversial words. But since this point has been expressed before, I’m guessing I’m just wasting bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/151 "2002-09-07T21:16:36Z")
So **Brutus** ain’t concerned with communicating effectively. His business. He doesn’t mind alienating his listeners for a trivial reason. His business. I’ve seen no one argue that the teacher was in the wrong. I’ve seen no one argue that using “niggardly” in everyday speech facilitates communication. All I’ve seen is people make bizarre claims that the only reason anyone would be offended by the word is that they’re stupid. If people have such a limited understanding of social interactions and the evolution of languages; if people are so unwilling to learn about social interactions and the evolution of languages; if people are willing to sacrifice their ability to communicate effectively on the altar of a bizarre principle – that’s their business. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/152 "2002-09-07T21:43:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Nig-gard-ly > > Nig - ger > > Looks different. Sounds different. Let’s see. Many posters have agreed that if they didn’t know the meaning of “niggardly”, they would think it was a bad word. So are you calling all of these good people, including myself, stupid? > [@](#): > > And if someone doesn’t know the difference between ‘nigger’ and ‘niggardly’, it will take mere moments to explain the difference to them. If you have to explain the meaning of a word to avoid offense, maybe–just maybe–it’s not the best word to use. Especially if that word shares meaning with many, less controversial words. But since this point has been expressed before, I’m guessing I’m just wasting bandwidth. [sub]further wasted for clarity[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/153 "2002-09-07T22:40:03Z")
From [[url=www.m-w.com](http://url=www.m-w.com)]Merriam-Webster’s online > [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1nig·gard > Pronunciation: 'ni-g&rd > > Main Entry: nig·ger > Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r In the pronunciation, the only difference is the final “d” noise. The second vowel in both words is pronounced the same. So the “looks different, sounds different” argument is a non-starter in spoken language – which is where I’m arguing it’s a poor choice of words for most occasions. Hmm. Imagine a word that describes a cooking technique, maybe a brief broiling. The word is “Q’at-shitish.” It obviously has a different etymology from the word “catshit.” Nonetheless, were I a chef in an American restaurant, I’d use a different word: I’d suspect that even educated diners would shy away from a dish called “Q’at-shitish ravioli.” I’d use a different word because my goal would be to communicate the dish’s flavors and contents effectively. By using “Qat-shitish,” I’d throw people off, and they’d be imagining catshit in connection with my food. That unwanted connotation of the word would get in my way enough that I’d imperil my ability to communicate by using it. That’s the only analogy I can think of that won’t risk bringing Godwin’s law down on me. Whaddya think? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/154 "2002-09-08T00:46:42Z")
monstro: > [@](#): > > Let’s see. Many posters have agreed that if they didn’t know the meaning of “niggardly”, they would think it was a bad word. So are you calling all of these good people, including myself, stupid? If I didn’t know what it meant, I would probably think “niggardly” was a bad word too. However, isn’t that the very reason why it is so important that it be taught? I think it would be a tragedy if even one person was turned off to great literature because they thought the author was a racist due to the use of “niggardly.” The possibility that this could happen to even one student is enough reason to teach the word. Wasn’t this thread started about someone who was teaching the word, rather than using it maliciously? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/155 "2002-09-08T00:48:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*…my goal would be to communicate… \*\* On the one hand it is rediculous for anyone to be offended if someone were to use the word niggardly. On the other hand I think it would be foolish to ever use the word because it is guaranteed to interfere with _whatever it is you are trying to communicate_. No matter how eloquent your presentation, no matter how erudite your audience, and no matter how appropriate the word might be for the situation, its very usage will jar the audience even if it’s for just a second. Given all the publicity one would have to question the motives behiond using the word. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/156 "2002-09-08T14:38:07Z")
If you are offended by the word, you are wrong. If after learning what it means, you are still offended, you are an idiot. I’m sorry to pull a VW\_Woman here, but I think that this sums up my opinion pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/157 "2002-09-08T14:58:20Z")
robertliguori: Actually, that sums up the entire fiasco very well. ---
**Author:** ![Sagasumono](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Sagasumono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sagasumono)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/158 "2002-09-09T04:57:04Z")
Gotta disagee (one again from a kokujin) -If you don’t know what the word meant and you were offended,you are MISTAKEN by the definition of the word, but not wrong to feel offended because it sounds similar to the other one. I do agree with,if you know what it means and your still offended,then your an idiot. Or overly sensitive ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/159 "2002-09-09T11:16:16Z")
I hope that mother never listens to black comedians or rap musicians… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968/160 "2002-09-09T13:39:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*If you are offended by the word, you are wrong. If after learning what it means, you are still offended, you are an idiot. > I’m sorry to pull a VW\_Woman here, but I think that this sums up my opinion pretty well. \*\* **Bobby** , are you sure you know what the word “offended” means? Are you sure you know what the word “wrong” means? I know you think I’m an idiot for being bothered by the sound of the word. That’s not, in this forum, the least bit relevant. What is relevant is that you’re misusing some word or another. Being offended by something is an opinion; by its nature, being offended is a morally and factually neutral state. If you’re just trying to be insulting, there’s another forum where you can do that. What you just wrote is simply nonsense, in the strictest meaning of the word. I do, however, accept your apology for pulling a **VW\_Woman** [sic]. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-niggardly-an-acceptable-word-for-a-4th-grade-teacher-to-use/126968.md?page=9)