When I was in school, a friend of mine taught German.
He showed me a list of the words in German he was not allowed to teach.
They included "damit’, and ‘Fahrt’.
Not much has changed. Much should have.
Regards,
Shodan
PS - No, my user name is not slang for what you say when you agree to do something that Dan asked you to. Hope nobody is offended.
Update on situation
Sorry wrong link above, here is the correct one.
Superintendent to meet with teacher over usage of word
Book traces word we’d rather forget
Good lord. “Therewith” and “drove” can’t be taught in German class, because they sound like bad words in English. I hope the teacher went on to convey all the bad words in German. Scheisse!
Guess you can’t use the Korean word for “Fuji Film” in Korean class either.[sup]1[/sup] God forbid anyone gets offended by the expression “Hoochie.”
Once again, more proof that the ignorant are in charge of education. Nay, not merely the ignorant, but also the stupid.
[sup]1[/sup]I found out the hard way that “Fuji” was the exception to the "Change the ‘F’ in a foreign word into a ‘P’ in Korean. I ended up, whilst asking for Fuji film, asking for “Puji” instead. Luckily, the young lady and her father ('twas a family store right by my house in Seoul back in 1978) were very understanding. Extremely understanding.
Oh lord help us all from the PC police.
I LOVE the word “niggardly” and I welcome the opportunity to educate others as to it’s meaning.
It would be great if we heard directly from some of the involved parties. Ya think?
And for the childrens’ sake, please stop saying ‘Crustacean’. It sounds far too similiar to ‘Croatian’, and I beg you not to insult my proud people.
Ya’ll are hilarious. :rolleyes:
monstro compared me to Hilary Clinton! How dare you!
You dastard!
Regards,
Shodan
I’m kind of appalled that there would even be a sizeable contingent of people on this board supporting the forced obsolescence of an English word simply because the majority of the population is deficient in vocabulary and proficient in overactive offendedness. It reminds me of the “Outland” strip about “offensensitivity”.
Uncle Cece is watching this thread with great alarm and a look of profound pain on his sainted face…
Fair enough. I’m kind of appalled that that’s what you think I’m saying. At this point, unless people decide to respond to the specific points I’ve made, instead of caricaturing my argument (and I understand, jayjay, that you may not have been talking about me above, so don’t take this as talking specifically about you), I don’t have much to add to the thread. I’m done explaining that I’m not advocating using different words simply because people are unfamiliar with etymologies.
Daniel
When did these people start using the word to tweak? Before or after this word became a controversy only a few years ago? Also, am I incorrect in thinking that the controversy first arose due to a misunderstanding of the word’s meaning?
True, but I think it is also the case that there are people who find offense where none is intended just to “tweak” people also. Being offended has become a very powerful social skill.* It immediately puts you in a position of moral superiority, at least among those who buy into it. It’s sort of a corollary to Godwin’s Law. If you can convince the other person that they have offended you personally, you win.
So while it is fair to be skeptical of the motives behind those who use “niggardly” in their speech, it is just as fair to be skeptical of the motives behind those who claim to be offended by it.
*I do it as a joke all the time. Whenever someone says something insulting about my tastes I go "How dare you say that about my (whatever). My dear grandmother - who was a saint to me - on her deathbed, with her last dying breath said (something really sappy about whatever was being insulted).
Hard to say, really. Is it relevant?
Not its meaning, but possibly in part its etymology.
I think you’re probably right. And that’s extremely rude as well. I hesitate to describe my reaction to the word as “offended” because of people like this, people who think that their offense is a sign of moral superiority over those who give them offense.
So instead of saying the word offends me, I say it makes me cringe. It makes me uncomfortable. I wince when I hear the word. I’m not morally superior to folks who don’t mind the word; I’m not more socially aware than they are. And I’m for damn sure not going to berate someone who uses the word without trying to piss people off.
Nonetheless, I’d suggest that folks use a different word unless they’re willing to divert their dialogue into a discussion of the word itself. If you’re willing to do that, and if you can do it without being an arrogant jerk about it, more power to you. I’m not generally willing to do that, so I will, for tactical reasons, choose a different word.
Note that for this tactical reason, it’s irrelevant when the “tweaking” meaning of the word came into being. If I were avoiding the word for other reasons – e.g., to avoid contributing to societal racism – the connotation’s etymology would be significant. But that’s not what I’m talking about.
Daniel
DanielWithRow, I wasn’t singling you out. There are a number of people in this thread who are doing exactly what I described. You’re not one of them. Your argument isn’t that simplistic. I still disagree with it, though.
I think what I find appalling about the opinion that you express is that I find myself hoping that adult human beings can manage to avoid ascribing offensive intentions to people based on the sound of a word. I would hope that we’ve firmly established that “niggardly” has no etymological or denotational (or even, except to those who are determined to be offended, connotational) connection to any form of the word “nigger”. That being the case, it’s those who take offense at the word, especially when the meaning has been explained to them as it has to the parent who complained and continues to do so, that are in the wrong. It makes no more sense to back down on this subject than it does to back down on the teaching of natural selection because it offends literalist Christians.
I’m gay. When I happen to read or hear something like “Got a fag, mate?” in a British book or television show, I know that “fag” means “cigarette” in the UK. I don’t get all up in arms about the offensiveness of such a thing. I don’t go ballistic because a popular hip-hop star is named Nelly. I don’t get incensed when someone decribes their obsessive neatness as “being anal”. In my opinion, the whole “niggardly” tempest-in-a-teapot is exactly along those lines.
And that’s the whole point. It’s nothing to do with “niggardly”, it’s all to do with Ms Walker’s outlook on life. She comes across as having very large chips on both shoulders combined with a fine selection of motes in both eyes. I suspect that she spends much of her life being offended.
And that’s the whole point. It’s nothing to do with “niggardly”, it’s all to do with Ms Walker’s outlook on life. She comes across as having very large chips on both shoulders combined with a fine selection of motes in both eyes. I suspect that she spends much of her life being offended.
Well, and here’s where I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not ascribing offensive intentions based on the sound of the word. In some cases, I’ll ascribe offensive intentions based on how the person uses the word: if someone uses the word in a context in which the denoted meaning doesn’t make sense, but a connotation of “like a nigger” makes sense, then I’ll ascribe offensive intentions. If someone tells me they’re going to use the word to tweak the “thought police,” then I’ll ascribe offensive intentions. Do you disagree with me in either of these cases? Am I wrong to ascribe offensive intentions? I’d appreciate your addressing this: I think this is a point that folks are missing.
In other cases, however, I do not ascribe offensive intentions. If someone describes a car as having a niggardly lack of features, I certainly am not going to think they’re trying to be offensive.
I think Ms. Walker is in the wrong, but not for the reason you state. She’s not in the wrong for taking offense at the word, if we’re using “taking offense” to mean “being bothered by.” You can’t be in the wrong for something like that, any more than you can be wrong for taking offense at the odor of patchouli.
Where she was wrong was in ascribing offensive intentions to the teacher. That’s very different.
Daniel:
Heh. It’s kind of ironic, actually. I just realized that I’m taking offense at the visceral reaction you’re describing to the word (that it makes you “cringe”). I guess I really have no more reason to take offense at that than I do to take offense at patchouli (and who told you I hated that smell?! :)) I think we’re talking over each other.
Yes, I agree that it’s acceptable to take offense at people who use niggardly the wrong way, or for offensive reasons. But I was getting the sense in this thread that because some people might use it the wrong way or for offensive reasons, that it’s acceptable to strike it from the vocabulary. And I take great offense at that.
Admittedly, it may not be any more sensible for me to take offense at that than it is for me to take offense at the movement to simplify English spelling. I just think it’s rather silly for supposedly educated and socialized adults to be offended by the sound of a word when it’s their own minds that are making the word offensive.