# Is northism evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734 "2010-12-19T18:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/1 "2010-12-19T18:27:08Z")
Is the standard practice of orienting maps and globes to the north evil? The connection to Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism is hard to miss. Orienting north privileges Europe, North America, and northern Asia at the expense of Africa, South America, Australia. The Earth has both a north and a south pole. Neither is any more “up” than the other. Placing north at the top of most maps and globes is damaging to the non-privileged cultures. The practice of putting north-oriented maps and globes in America schools only re-enforces Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism in a captive audience of children. Should the Department of Education require schools to use an equal number of south-oriented maps and globes? Do north-oriented maps and globes re-enforce Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/2 "2010-12-19T18:38:51Z")
A considerable majority of the worlds population (and most of its land mass) is found north of the equator. It is not just Europe and North America, it is all of Asia, most of Africa, and a considerable chunk of South America. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/3 "2010-12-19T18:40:58Z")
Jesus titty-fucking Christ. People have enough trouble finding important locations on simple maps without you turning half of them upside-down. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/4 "2010-12-19T18:44:19Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Is the standard practice of orienting maps and globes to the north evil? The connection to Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism is hard to miss. Orienting north privileges Europe, North America, and northern Asia at the expense of Africa, South America, Australia. Northern regions are more important to other northern regions. Especially back when the North = Up convention was settled on in the first place.And if the southern ones want southern oriented globes they can flip them easily enough; such globes exist. > [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > The Earth has both a north and a south pole. Neither is any more “up” than the other. Placing north at the top of most maps and globes is damaging to the non-privileged cultures. No, it isn’t. How is it damaging? > [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > The practice of putting north-oriented maps and globes in America schools only re-enforces Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism in a captive audience of children. So…back when they hung maps eastern side up (thus the term “Oriental”, toward the end where you oriented the map), was that because China secretly dominated Europe? > [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Should the Department of Education require schools to use an equal number of south-oriented maps and globes? No, that would just be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/5 "2010-12-19T18:49:32Z")
A relevant [Straight Dope column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/441/on-maps-why-is-north-always-up). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/6 "2010-12-19T19:00:38Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Placing north at the top of most maps and globes is damaging to the non-privileged cultures. The practice of putting north-oriented maps and globes in America schools only re-enforces Eurocentrism, racism, and culturism in a captive audience of children. You mean like how U.S. maps prejudice schoolchildren against Florida, Texas, and Louisiana, in favor of North Dakota, Maine, and Montana? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/7 "2010-12-19T19:18:05Z")
I have to assume this is a parody. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/8 "2010-12-19T20:13:53Z")
What is the most important influence on life on earth? Why the sun, of course. When north is up, those poor people in the Northern Hemisphere have to deal with the conundrum of the sun’s path being at the _bottom_ of the map. The unfairly favored peoples of the Southern Hemisphere can read maps of their continents properly, with the sun traveling across the top, and easily plan their outdoor weddings and architectural photography expeditions. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/9 "2010-12-19T20:41:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I have to assume this is a parody. If not, **Le Fou** has an insufficient grasp of the magnitude of hosts of more pressing problems facing humanity. Or just too damned much time on his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/10 "2010-12-19T20:45:59Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > If not, **Le Fou** has an insufficient grasp of the magnitude of hosts of more pressing problems facing humanity. > > Or just too damned much time on his hands. Or he’s one of those darned Southern Hemispherians here to steal our jobs and wimmin! ---
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/11 "2010-12-19T22:19:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, it isn’t. How is it damaging? It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. The south is just as “up” as the north and maps and globes should reflect this fact. Failing to recognize this fact is naked prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/12 "2010-12-19T22:26:57Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. > > The south is just as “up” as the north and maps and globes should reflect this fact. Failing to recognize this fact is naked prejudice. That’s just silly. It’s a leftover convention from Ptolemy, who didn’t even know that Australia or South America existed much less have a prejudice against them. That’s all the significance it has. And making geography more confusing profits no one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/13 "2010-12-19T22:27:30Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. > > The south is just as “up” as the north and maps and globes should reflect this fact. Failing to recognize this fact is naked prejudice. Is this a joke thread? People in Africa and Latin America aren’t concerned with your damn map. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/14 "2010-12-19T22:28:46Z")
Oddly, maps used to be oriented with east up. That’s why it’s called that - the Orient is at the top. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/15 "2010-12-19T22:29:05Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It is not a myth, it is true. It is where most of the people are. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/16 "2010-12-19T22:29:46Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. > > The south is just as “up” as the north and maps and globes should reflect this fact. Failing to recognize this fact is naked prejudice. So the Inuit are the most important people in the world? Or, if you want to be old-fashioned, Eskimos ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/17 "2010-12-19T22:38:26Z")
Plus, there’s nothing really stoppng Australia, Argentina and Brazil from churning out some South oriented maps. Presumably they don’t bother because being on the bottom of the map does not, in fact, make them feel inferior. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/18 "2010-12-19T22:42:23Z")
I have to thank the OP, for providing evidence to refute those various posters who claim that the concept of “political correctness” is a figment of the right-wing imagination. If the OP is in fact parody, I have heard the claim made in all seriousness in other venues. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/19 "2010-12-19T22:47:16Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Plus, there’s nothing really stoppng Australia, Argentina and Brazil from churning out some South oriented maps. _McArthur’s Universal Corrective map_ is a good example: [link](http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/wow/0aarthuruur.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/20 "2010-12-19T22:47:27Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. > > The south is just as “up” as the north and maps and globes should reflect this fact. Failing to recognize this fact is naked prejudice. Do you have any evidence for any of these alleged ill effects? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734.md?page=2)